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I had my doubts about getting a broken header stud out

Discussion in 'BNS12 Chat & Tech' started by jdub, Feb 8, 2019.

  1. jdub

    jdub Tuned and Synch'ed

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    I first thought the bolt/stud had fallen out but to my dismay it had snapped off and a portion was still stuck in the head. I was unable to start a drill perfectly centered on the broken piece and as I went up in size it was getting uncomfortably close to the threads. And it didn't budge until I got to the final size of extractor. 20190203_121419.jpg 20190203_133547.jpg
     
  2. jdub

    jdub Tuned and Synch'ed

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    Success! 20190203_134110.jpg 20190203_134120.jpg
     
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  3. jdub

    jdub Tuned and Synch'ed

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    Thankfully no threads were harmed in the process.
     
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  4. Android

    Android Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Famiglia

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    I always try to undo with a centre punch, many a time no drilling necessary
     
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  5. Raven

    Raven Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    Good job. That task always scares me. The potential for collateral damage is very high.
     
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  6. Bill Hagan

    Bill Hagan GT Reference GT Famiglia

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    Anyone who has BTDT cringes on reading of another's encounter.:tmi:

    Not all such adventures turn out as well as yours. :(

    My happy ending (of that sort!) was done as yours, tho I did apply penetrating oil over the course of several days and also used a propane torch to heat things up before drilling (unsuccessfully) and ultimately extracting as you did.

    Not sure oil and heat did any good (or harm), but I was so glad to see the broken bit off and the threads unharmed that I had (another) beer. :giggle:

    I now pull and reinsert those every winter just to ensure they aren't "frozen." About to do that again soon; appreciate the reminder.

    Bill
     
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  7. jdub

    jdub Tuned and Synch'ed

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    I also used a torch and just a tiny bit of penetrating oil. I should have planned ahead and doused the area with the oil, but instead I had just thought of the idea and sprayed a little bit as I was drilling. The oil seemed to reduce the cutting action of the bit so I stopped using the oil. The torch probably helped but I used heat on the two smaller extractors to no avail. I think most of the heavy lifting was done by the third and final size of extractor.

    I am not sure whether to install the studs (and the nuts) using locktite, anti-seize or to leave dry. I rode with only one stud/nut holding the left header for, ahem, a while. I had to tighten the nut every 100 miles or so, or else it would loosen up enough to allow a very noticeable amount of exhaust leak or rattle from the loose collector ring. Each time I would tighten the left side nut, I would also check the right side header. I'd say half the time the right side nuts (or studs) would turn just a little bit.

    So when I got the broken stud out, I checked the other fasteners and two of the studs came out attached with the nuts. The fourth stud stayed put when the nut was removed. I slightly tightened that one back in without removing it, but for the other three holes, I decided to use locktite. Just regular red, non-high heat stuff. I installed the nuts dry. I checked about every 70 miles for about 300 miles and found every nut would turn a bit each time. But I also installed new header gaskets and thought maybe the gaskets were still "compressing" and allowing the fasteners to lose tension. After 300 miles and 4 or 5 heat cycles, and the nuts still turning each time I checked, I decided to use penetrating locktite on the nuts. I've only had one heat cycle since then, but it was the first time none of the fasteners moved when I checked.

    I should note the dealer where I bought the new studs and nuts did not have the proper washers so I reused the two washers that I had. The third washer is somewhere on my garage floor. So only half of the fasteners have the fancy lock washer.

    How does everyone else manage to keep these fasteners tight?
     
  8. john zibell

    john zibell Moderator Staff Member GT Famiglia

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    Schnorr washers (these are a locking washer) should be available at a good hardware store, and there is always e-bay or Amazon. You need the M8 size. Do use a double nut technique to set the studs. I would use loctite on the stud threads to the cylinder, and anti seize on the nut ends. The Schnorr washers will keep it tight once snugged up to take care of the gasket compression.
     
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  9. kiwi dave

    kiwi dave GT Reference

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    Loctite won't work on exhaust studs. The temperature is too high.
     
  10. Dinsdale Piranha

    Dinsdale Piranha Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    There is a very high temp Loctite, but I don't recall it's number. It's late and mine is outside in the shed. Not-withstanding that, I ALWAYS antiseize exhaust studs, especially when they're into an alloy head. Since having the aforementioned problem once many years ago. (Mine didn't end well at all!) I haven't had a stud attempt to fall out or even come loose, but the couple of times I needed to remove an exhaust stud it's been a breeze.
     
  11. jdub

    jdub Tuned and Synch'ed

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    I know loctite is not supposed to work in such high heat applications, but it's working for me. Two heat cycles and 140 miles later, all four fasteners are still tight. They would've turned for sure by now without the locktite. I'll continue to check them periodically. I'll also try to pick up the Schnorr washers for when one or more do come loose or if I have some reason to remove the headers.
     
  12. jdub

    jdub Tuned and Synch'ed

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    Just an update: 7k miles later and the header studs and nuts are holding tight. And two are still without the lockwashers. When I check I don't try to break anything loose, but will give it a gentle snug to see if it moves any. So far no movement. That said, I may have hell to pay if a stud breaks inside the head again LOL.
     
  13. scottmastrocinque

    scottmastrocinque High Miler GT Famiglia

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    John Zibel is absolutely correct, but I think he is using the term "Loctite" to mean, in general, a "threadlock chemical" the same way people use the term "Kleenex" to mean "Facial Tissue".

    You are right in that Loctite has no product capable of acting as a exhaust stud thread locker, however...

    Use RESBOND 907TS THREADLOCKER - Works perfect from -300°F to 2100°F.

    I've used it. It will work perfectly.
     

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