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I hear it all the time BMW,s are better!!!!!

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by 1st V7 classic, Aug 17, 2011.

  1. Bill Hagan

    Bill Hagan GT Reference GT Famiglia

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    So, what does "practical and pragmatic" have to do with owning a motorcycle? :whistle:

    Seriously, I am drawn to beemers, too, tho have never bought one. And, not sure when you last bought new Guzzis.

    I bought all of mine new. Only the Norge caused any significant drama -- and that was real drama! The EV's issues were the product of my thinking it needed to be washed all the time, thus leading to electrical gremlins; the Ballabio's only maddening trait was its tendency to vibrate its header pipes into pieces, which Todd solved with an after-market fix; the Norge ... well, it's a joy now, but had some EXPENSIVE (tho thankfully under warranty) problems; and the Griso hasn't had so much as a burble. In fact, tho a worry wart, I no longer even carry tools beyond the under-seat kit on long trips.

    My brother has 10K on a new Norge 8v and, while there have been a few minor issues, the dealer -- Dahlonega, Georgia -- has fixed all on the spot or with quick returns on parts.

    Maybe, just maybe, Piaggio has figured it out.

    Bill
     
  2. GuzziMoto

    GuzziMoto GT Reference GT Contributor

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    There are crappy BMW dealers and crappy Guzzi dealers. There are probably more good BMW dealers then there are good Guzzi dealers, but that is to be expected as there are way more BMW dealers as a whole.
    Buying either bike from a crappy dealer tends to be a mistake, regardless of how big a discount they gave you.
    When I bought my Griso I did not even try to get a discount. I payed retail but wanted to know that the bike would come properly set up and if I had an issue they would take care of it right away and sort it out with mama Guzzi later. They did.
    Guzzi's are not for everyone, though. Some people expect more then a small company like Guzzi can provide. They have limited resources and being Italian they are not well run. Buell was much better at customer support, but look where that got them.....

    My wife and I own 4 Guzzi's, three of which are bikes we will likely keep until we are dead. The 4th is my Griso, and while I doubt I will ever sell it I do not have the same kind of attachment to it as the others. It is a great bike, and when I am riding it I love it. But there is not that emotional connection that the others have, perhaps it is a little to refined and polished (which is hard to imagine about a guzzi but compared to the other three it is more refined and polished). Maybe if I did not have the other three to compare it to. Maybe it is too much of a cruiser/couch, lacking that raw sporty feel. Dunno.
    But it still makes me smile every time I ride it and in the end that is all I can ask.
     
  3. Trout

    Trout GT Reference

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    I've been on Guzzi's since the early 70's and back then I tried a few BMW's and always found them to be quite fine machines but very boring to ride. I could appreciate the fine workmanship but for me there was nothing fun or exciting about them and for the price of a BMW I could get a couple of Guzzi's. I feel the same way about those big Honda's and other Japanese Touring or Cruiser machines. The one's I've ridden kinda left me cold so to speak.

    Recently I bought my first ever brand new "anything" in my life: a 2011 Guzzi California Black Eagle. I wanted a new bike and was seriously considering moving away from Guzzi's but choices were limited because I really like the old school style. I was sold on the Triumph Thruxton, liked the Bonneville even considered a Harley and looked at the BMW's. If Royal Enfield had offered a bigger machine I would have considered it seriously. I test rode the Triumphs and they were satisfying and in the price range. I rode a small block Guzzi V7 but for the price decided to go Triumph. Just looking at the Harley was enough of a reality check. Borrowed a BMW and although it was a far different bike than the old toaster tank air head I rode in the 70's it left me with the same ho-hum feeling and I found out that the newer Beemers were having their own warranty issues. The biggest reason for buying a BMW in the 70's was for it's lack of mechanical failures that justified it's high price.

    So I bought the Black Eagle and like all Guzzi's it has it's moments of extreme frustration and ecstatic joy. They are truly bi-polar and will do things to intentionally embarrass you & then 10 miles down the road will make you love them & wonder why you were upset just a few minutes ago.

    I guess trying to figure out if Beemers are better is kinda like trying to figure out who has the best wife.
     
  4. oceanluvr30

    oceanluvr30 Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    As a relatively new Guzzi owner i can only say, i am enjoying the heck out of my Breva. And as to Guzzi's reliability
    I recently read the blogs of two Guzzi owners, one a dutch men who has ridden his 33 year old Guzzi from Alaska to the tip of South America with not one mechanical failure and over 37,000 miles. He brags how little maintenance he does. The other blog was from an English couple who have logged over 50,000 miles the past three summers traveling through North America on a 750 Breva. These could be exceptions but i kind of doubt it.....
     
  5. Mi_ka

    Mi_ka High Miler

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    One reason is that Guzzis tend to be selected by people with spirited ... spirits, so when something goes wrong they are usually much louder than people with more temperate character and choices...
     
  6. wittangamo

    wittangamo Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    The first time I ever walked into a Guzzi shop, as I was walking around the V7 Cafe I was about to buy, a rider waiting on service for his bike walked up and said, "Once you ride one of those you'll never want anything else."

    At the time I didn't know what he meant. But after owning soulless but reliable Japanese bikes and unreliable but loveable British bikes, and riding loud overweight American iron and efficient but unexciting German engineering, the Guzzi put the fun back in riding for me. Yes, it had more than its share of problems for a new bike. I made more frustrating trips to the dealer to get it sorted than I'd planned. But all that was forgotten every time I leaned into a tight curve and fed a little throttle to steam into the next straight. The V-twin makes beautiful music.

    Yesterday I traded it in and rode home on a new Black Devil Griso. I was afraid the extra weight would be noticeable and the extra horsepower would make it harder to ride smoothly in traffic. Instead it felt refined and manageable in town, flickable in the turns, and a beast when there was room to roar.

    Now I know what the stranger in the shop meant that first day. There's something visceral in the look, sound and feel of a Guzzi. Other bikes may top it in one area, but can never match the sum of its parts or the hypnotic hold it lays on the rider.
     
  7. Ad B

    Ad B Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    Hi,

    how nice to read this topic.
    More than a year old and still going strong, nice. :p
    Everybody has certain feelings about a bike.
    As the years goes by, you learn. Sometimes a lot, sometimes not... :mrgreen:
    Nothing wrong with the last. Learning can go along with disasters and mistakes...
    The most start with an easy Japanese bike, enjoying driving around.
    Some of us evolve... I reached the stadium of riding a Harley for 20 years. :blush:
    Others keep going Japanese, other are going for the Beemers. :S
    Some of us are finally falling in love with a Guzzi... :*
    I fel in love with a Griso...
    I've met the model in 2006 (a G11) for the first time, almost love at first sight.
    But my life had to wait 4 years before I said my dear Harley goodbye, he was a part of my life. :cry:
    A very nice, very young G12 was flirting with me on the Internet... :whistle:
    Now I love my G12. I treat him as good as I can, I give him all my love (that bit wat's left, my wife doesn't use...)
    Sometimes I pimp him, with nice accessoires and exclusive parts. It's MY G12... THE ONLY ONE!
    Once my wife asked me the most terrible question you can ask your partner...
    She asked (while she was looking at such a...), why didn't you buy a BMW...? :sick:
    At that moment the guy started his Beemer... I said to my wife, THAT's why!
    (It ran like a sewing-machine...) :lol:

    Is a Beemer better...? Maybe for others, not for me.
    Maybe a Beemer is more reliable... I don't give a d...
    My G12 is always running like hell, running very good, very reliable. And looking like magic.

    Ride what you like, ride together and have fun!!
    Ad B
     
  8. Trout

    Trout GT Reference

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    OMG!!! If the owners of Piaggio had any sense then these testimonies would be used in their ads.

    I hope they don't because these machines are not meant for everybody and I'd sure hate to see them become a fad toy.

    But if that happened in a few years there would be a pile of inexpensive Guzzi's on the market for us to buy.

    But that might affect new sales negatively and parts & service might get worse.

    But if they became popular we might have more & better dealers and some of those might stick around when the fad fades.

    But Piaggio might have to raise prices because of the higher demand.

    I'm skit-so-frentic. I love havin these arguments.
     
  9. Goodvibes

    Goodvibes Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Judging by the numerous thumbs-up, stop light conversations, and double takes, I'd say there are quite a few folks out there who secretly covet Guzzi. The design is absorbing and yes thank you, it doesn't run with sewing machine precision. I prefer it that way.
     
  10. scottmastrocinque

    scottmastrocinque Scott Mastrocinque GT Famiglia

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    Having owned and ridden BMW's all my life, including a number of years as a General Sales Manager for a large BMW dealership, I can tell you this...BMW's have issues, just like other motorcycles. Walk back to the service bay of any BMW dealership, and you will find all models of BMW;s torn down and being repaired. The Legendary Motorcycles of German is a myth. They are a machine, just like every other motorcycle. Some notable things I still chuckle about are "The Legendary Gearboxes of Germany, al-la R1000's which were notorious for gearbox failures) and the Can-Bus fiasco, the Final drives which spontaneously burst into flames, the high failure rate of ABSII control units, cycling problems of the ABS due to minute voltage changes in the battery, failed rear main-seals, and the list could go on and on... They are machines and machines have failures. So what.

    Ride the motorcycle that makes you come alive, because that is what motorcycling is all about anyway...coming alive!

    As for me, every time I ride my 2012 Stelvio NTX, I fall deeper and deeper in love. We fit each other. Have I had issues, sure, stupid stuff, but then I am grateful to be a competent motorcyclist, which includes being able to diagnose and effect repairs on my machines. Dealer's and warranties are for serious stuff, not nit-picky, easy to fix-it-yourself type repairs.
     
  11. Oz1200Guzzi

    Oz1200Guzzi High Miler

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    Bland is bland is bland is BMW - Guzzi has soul...
     
  12. sandy

    sandy Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Agree with all of that.
    Machines break, and this is one area where BMW have Guzzi beat.
    Supply of spare parts.
    Soul and character count for little when your 1998 Guzzi sits on the bench in need of parts you have virtually no hope of obtaining.
    Those same parts for the BMW would be at the dealers in a couple of days.
     
  13. ARVENO

    ARVENO Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Do you have an Idea of how big is BMW ? and how small Guzzi is ?
    That's the reason why Guzzi spare parts are less available than BMW.

    But i know one thing... Guzzi WON al lot of competitions...BMW will never win.
    Talking about technology ? mmhhh in the 50's Guzzi produced a V8 engine , and they could not keep on developing it just due lack of money , what BMW was producing in the 50's ?? LOL !!
    Guzzi had the best ideas, best projects,best engineers, best bikes , best engines... but very little money compared to any other motorcycle company.
    All the best motorcycles between the 30's and 80's were made in Italy, but they were so little....they almost all disappear....
    Laverda ,Benelli , Gilera , Moto Morini ...the list goes on... Guzzi , MV and Ducati are surviving....

    BTW , i still have a BMW R 80G/S and a R75/5 and i love them, BUT hey , MOTO GUZZI is the best , not perfect though...but who cares... :lol:

    One more thing... I see lot of BMW owners talking about Guzzi...but i've never heard a Guzzi rider talking about BMW.... maybe because we don't suffer from inferiority complex ? ;)

    Ride safe,
    Marco
     
  14. Pascal

    Pascal Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    I don't think so.
    My riding buddy had an 04 RT with a failed fuel pump...
    Was 4 business day to get that part from the dealer back in 2010.
    He now has a 2011 GSA and had to wait 2 weeks to get the parts he needed when he wrecked it last year.
    Minor parts like fog lamps, engine guards etc... You'd think the big dealers in Central FL (Daytona, Orlando) would stock these... Nope.
    His wife's 2011 650GS needed some work under warranty (forgot what it was) and it was another 2 weeks to get those parts...
    So your "Couple of days" guess is not even in the ball park.
    Also, any BMW owner I know very rarely get their parts in a couple of days, except for oil maybe. LOL.

    Having said that, I agree with you that having a 98 Guzzi would be more problematic to get parts than a 98 Bimmer.
    Although I don't have any experience in both cases but back then I believe that Aprilia owned Guzzi and to put it mildly, it was a cluster fuck.
    The switch from carburetor to FI was all so smooth, lol.
     
  15. NJNeal

    NJNeal Tuned and Synch'ed

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    It's hard to do an apples to apples comparison when we're talking about bikes of many vintages. Having just sold a '78 airhead and an '03 oilhead, and bought an '01 Guzzi, all I can really tell you is my experience.

    The airhead was tough to get serviced when the issue was beyond my capabilities. Not too many shops near me wanted to put the time in to the bike to do more than 'mostly' fix the problem, collect the money and get it out the door.

    On the '03, my experience with dealer service is that they're parts exchangers. I had a dealer tell me the TBs needed to be replaced because someone had tampered with a sacred screw. So, let's throw $1500 at a bike with a book value of $4500 rather than using your skills and tools to find a solution. Many components on the '03 that fail are $$$$. ABS computer? Basically not re-buildable (although there is a company now that's trying). Rear drive failure due to poor shimming? Too bad.

    I think BMW's made some bikes that are very good for dealers' service department revenue. When they're running right they're a joy, but when something goes, it's expensive and tough for the DIY to address.

    I have no illusions that my '01 Guzzi will be trouble free, but from fueling, to drivetrain, to brakes, to suspension, to cooling, it's a pretty simple system and has adequate parts support.

    The R1200R is a fun bike and I know owners who are very happy with it. I don't miss my oilhead. I do sometimes miss my airhead.

    Neal in NJ
     
  16. Unleaded

    Unleaded Just got it firing!

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    I've owned three BMWs....a 1200GSA, a K1200S, and a K1300S. The only problem I had - with 60,000 miles among them - was a clutch slave cylinder on the GSA...and the bike had 2500 miles on it at the time. It went in Missoula, MT on a long tour. Stopped at two dealers on the long, mostly-clutchless trek back, and both were very helpful in limping me home, but neither had the parts in stock, and it was a known issue for the GS/A from 2009.

    All that to say all bikes have issues, and they often only show themselves at the most inopportune times. It's the motorcyclists subcategory of Murphy's law. I'll always have a soft spot for BMWs. But better? No. Very complicated in their solutions, overly techy in their designs, BMW is a cool marque, but they have no stronghold on motorcycle design or rider enjoyment, for sure.

    We all know the Internet amplifies problems, but hop over to a BMW-centric board sometime....no failing final drive posts means the board is down for maintenance. :lol:

    I'll be a Guzzi owner shortly, and it will be my only bike. And I'll enjoy every last second on it, just like I've enjoyed every bike I've owned in the last two decades. Life's too short to worry about unanswerable, subjective and vague assertions like " best". Two wheels, face in the wind. It's good. ;)
     
  17. keith217

    keith217 Just got it firing!

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    Thast a good point you made LOL.
    I think BMW as a modern bike is much more reliable and well built. While the Guzzi ( i don't have one yet ) is full of soul.
     
  18. wittangamo

    wittangamo Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Marco[/quote]
    I think BMW as a modern bike is much more reliable and well built. While the Guzzi ( i don't have one yet ) is full of soul.[/quote]

    I suspect you might get an argument from owners of both brands.

    BMWs have earned a reputation for being so high-tech they're difficult for an owner to maintain. Some of the new ones have not proven as reliable as the older models.

    Guzzis have kept their reputation for being easy to work on and rolling for a lot of miles without losing the soul that makes them special.

    Go ride comparable models from both manufacturers and tell us which you'd rather ride again.
     
  19. Barenekd

    Barenekd Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Who says they're better? BMW owners? Have any of The people who say that ever been on a Guzzi. Personally, there are two motorcycles I would never considering owning, Well more than that, but it would be easy to classify as Hardly Ablesons and their clones, long list, any bike that weights over about 550 lbs, and BMWs. So to me anything else is better. In case you wonder if my opinion is worth anything, well, to me it is, but I've been riding for over 50 years, owned about 50 motorcycles, sued to make my living in a motorcycle shop as the chief mechanic on BSAs, Triumphs, Nortons, and a variety of dirt bikes. I'm also an A&P Mechanic and pilot, for whatever that's worth.
    So back to the subject at hand. Most of today's motorcycles are pretty good as far as reliability goes, even Royal Enfields, which get the worst publicity, but are one of the most fun machines to own and ride out there.
    So what is the big difference between Guzzis and BMWs? Depends entirely on what you want in a motorcycle. Are they more reliable? Questionable. Do they handle better? Depends on what you like and want in handling. To me, they steer way to slowly to be anything but work in the places I like to ride. I come from owning a series of Super Sports that you kinda have to think about turning and they're there. Kinda like flying a competition aerobatic airplane, you think it though maneuvers instead of having to wrestle it through sky like a Cessna. Do you want to go extremely fast? Where, Beemers make faster bikes than Guzzi, but exactly where do you think you're going to use it? Do you ant touring capabilities. How much of a Caddie do you want. A Gold wing is probably the best of that bunch, but Beemers have a lot of aficianadoes there. But there are certainly Guzzi's with equal capabilities.
    The bottom line, buy a bike and don't listen to anyone else because they may not want or have the same interests as you. They also have their favorites that they will try sell you on.
    I was riding with a small group of three guys on Royal Enfields. We did a lot of over 300 mile days in the SoCal twisties. Two had bags and windshields on theirs, I turned mine into a Cafe Racer. One guy sold his because he wanted something more suited to two up riding wit his girlfriend. I crashed mine trying to avoid an oncoming pickup in my lane on a twisty road. The third one was stolen out of his garage. #1 ended up buying a Triumph Bonneville T100, the second guy bought a Triumph Street Triple. I was waiting for the new Royal Enfield Cafe Racer to get here from India, but that is still two month down the road. I got tired of not riding, so I bought another Cafe Racer, the V7R . We all really loved the Enfields, but it was just time to move on! But we all did it independently, not swayed by what the others wanted. I had already owned three of the Hinckley Triumphs and wanted something different. The Guzzi looked good, had adequate horsepower and looked like it would be a lot of fun. I do miss the 70 mpg the RE averaged when I had it, 2 years, 16,000 miles. The Three Bulleteers will be together again, possibly tomorrow!
    If you made it this far, all I can tell you is don't listen to other people, you know what you want. Don't let anyone else sway you. You'll probably be disappointed or wonder what you missed by not following your own heart.
    Good Luck and Good Shopping!
     

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