I want a V65 Lario. Maybe....

[bsanut]

So I hear the 4V Lario valve train is scatter-prone. Does anyone have pdfs of the MG service bulletins as to how they fixed it?

And should I be entertaining the thought of finding and buying one anyway? I just like the look of the bike and its dashboard much better than other small block.

One way or another, though, I'm going to buy a baby Guzzi.

Joe

 

[jr1967]

Guzzi never fixed it. It's a great little bike WHEN it works though, but read up on it before you decide 'it will probably be not too hard to fix...'. Scores of people have been there and yes it's one of the very bikes that turned people away from Guzzi forever.
I would seriously go for a 750 Targa if you're determined on those looks. Two valve small blocks are good, maybe you want to cafe a cheap 750 Breva and post some pics of the project?
Cheers, JR

 

[john zibell]

If I remember correctly, the weak link in the Lario valve train was the cam shaft. Once updated I believe they did well.

 

[Holt]

john zibell wrote:

If I remember correctly, the weak link in the Lario valve train was the cam shaft. Once updated I believe they did well.

Wasn't it the valves being the weak spot; replacable with some Suzuki valves?
Ooh,probably both issues. :dry:

 

[Morizzi]

OK, here I go again.

The camshaft was the first problem and there was a general recall. All bikes should have been done. I had a friend who bought one new, It lasted 16,000km before the crank went. They changed from a solid crank to a hollow one to increase oil flow in the recall.

The valves. :blink:

2 piece valves welded together. They evidently break without warning and heads are evidently hard to come by now due to the massive amount of failures. Yes valves from a Suzuki 250N can be used but that may not be the problem. some think the valve springs are too stiff so it rips the valve heads off, some say the valves are too weak. :unsure:

The real problem is that nobody REALLY knows. They were so unreliable most owners stuck them in the shed for years and tried not to break them. I've read posts from "self proclaimed " experts only to find out that they had only ever done less than 20,000km or so before hiding their bike away too scared to ride it. :angry: That's not enough time to even test their theories.

There is a new guy who seems to know a bit about them. Iceblue on the Wild Guzzi Forum. He states that Nevada progressive valve springs help with the issue and of course limiting red line. I've listened to other head experts and as soon as you say the valves break their comment is "springs too weak." :S As they don't close fast enough exhaust gases give the stems hot spots and they break. I don't make this stuff up. That's how contradictory it is.

One last issue are the wheels and tyres. 16" both front and back. It is virtually impossible to get a 16" rear tyre for them. Some get a front tyre and fit it on the wheel backwards. I know of 2 bikes that have had their wheels sandblasted for repainting and all 4 wheels had cracks at the rim/spoke join. It isn't a big sample group but it is 100% failure.

In my opinion a Lario, or any of the 4V models, isn't a good choice for your first or only Guzzi. If you have a couple of 2 valve small blocks and you are tempted to have a play then go for it but if not then the suggestion of the 750 Targa is a good one. If not a V50 or V65 have been good reliable bikes. If the valves go on them they at least give you warning. The valve clearances keep closing up as the valve stretches. Not a chronic problem. I know one guy with a Monza got 195,000km out of a set of valves. A lot of other makes don't last that long.

 

[bsanut]

Hoo, boy. Well, thanks for the info.

This would NOT be my first Guzzi, btw. I have a Griso now, had a Centauro in the past, and I was a Guzzi dealer when the Monzas were new. But I was out of it by the time the 650s came out.

Joe

 

[skorpion]

The V65 Lario was my introduction to the world of Moto Guzzi some 20 years ago

My understanding of the valve problem goes like this:-

The relatively heavy valve springs coupled with a somewhat soft material used in the valve stems, resulted in the ends of the valve stems mushrooming with use. This resulted in the valve adjuster being unable to slide on the end of the valve stem, causing the valve stem to flex back and forwards, eventually fracturing. This of course resulted in the valve heads dropping onto the top of the piston, destroying that side of the motor.

The factory fix for the problem was the issuing of a set of hard steel lash caps for the valve stems.

I fitted the lash caps, and also softer valve springs (Suzuki GN250). The motor seemed to be much happier with the softer valve springs. Fitting these caused a small problem, as the GN250 springs are slightly larger in diameter than the oringinal Lario ones. This was overcome in the following maner. I obtained spring retainrs from 2 different Suzuki models. From memory these were the GN 250 and a GSX250. One retainer was a properly machined steel retainer, that fitted over the valve guides and provided a seat against the head that matched the increased spring diameter. The other retainer was a pressed steel one (like a bowler hat) that also matched the increased spring diameter, but significantly was exactly sized to fit over the Lario spring retainer without any play at all. This allowed me to use the standard Lario valves and collets, as the collets were still fitting into the Lario retainers.

With these mods, there was never a problem with the bike, I even re-purchased the bike in the late 90's with the mods still in place. The bike is still going strong - in the hands of yet another owner.

John B
Stelvio and V7 Classic

 

[Mi_ka]

What where the engine character differences between the 2V and 4V small blocks?
The expected lack of torque on the low end vs more ponies at higher revs?
Mpg differences?
Exhaust note differences?
Would a modernized resurrection of the 4V small block by mama Guzzi be of any practical use in your experienced opinion?
A V7 cafe with a little grunt beside the looks or so?

 

[Twinsport]

I owned one for a number of years and had no failures. The two failures Im aware of were soft cams that when worn hammered the valve train resulting in failure, and original springs which resonated at high revs and failed, dropping the valve. The fix was an aftermarket ( raceco? ) double spring with a reverse wound inner spring I am still looking for a stock Lario for a project.

 

[IceBlue]

The problem grew from weak cams (as already mentioned) - too narrow -possibly too soft too - too strong springs - and to weak 2 piece valves.

Remedy seems to be good 1 piece valves - the progressive Nevada springs - improved and wider cams (14mm) with corresponding narrower tappets and good engine lube - race lube with some ZDDP additive. I suggest Castrol TWS if other high level ZDDP oil isn't available.

Some modded Larios has done more than 100.000 km. There are no guaranties - but sure worthwhile IMHO. My Lario has the mods I discribed - not done too many km's yet, but adding up.

My info comes from some extensive research from what others have done. I'm rebuilding my 4th 8V SB to that recipie, so I have faith in this one.

Saluti