Longer Side Stand and Centre stand - any ideas??

[aussiegreg]

G'day all,

If you read my previous post then you might have guessed that my next problem is that with the increase in suspension height is that my side and centre stands are now too short and the bike leans dangerously and is hard to lift with me at 1.71 cm ( 5 ft 7 in ) tall.

I have Put a block under the side stand and 29mm ( 1.14 inches) seems like the best feel, 35mm ( 1.378 inches) is good but maybe a little too upright and 20mm (.79 inches) is good but could be slightly higher. So I suppose that means that 29mm longer is best.

I have put 9mm ( 0.35 inches ) packers under the centre stand and I can just turn both wheels, but they are still slightly scraping on the floor.

With the centre stand on the 9mm packers then the side stand distance off the floor is 125 mm ( 4.92 inches ) at the outside bottom of foot and 115mm ( 4.53 inches ) at the inside bottom of the foot. But this measurement should be the same as with standard as the stands have not changed.

Also on the centre stand with the 9mm packers and wheels just touching the floor the steel pipe that comes out of the back of the engine at the bottom of the nut is 233mm ( 9.17 inches ) from floor. With the bike off the centre stand and wheels on the ground the measurement from bottom of pipe to floor is 195mm ( 7.68 inches ). So I guess that mean static?? Sag is 38mm ( 1.5 inches ).

How high am I above standard?? I suppose the way to measure is to put equal size packers under both front and rear tires and that will give the increase in suspension height.

Also how do I lengthen the side and centre stand???

My dealer has told me that the side stand is cast steel so may be hard to lengthen.

Is there a compatible stand off another bike that is longer.

Would the Stelvio fit?? And how much longer is it?? My side stand is 247mm ( 9.72 inches ) from centre of bolt to bottom centre of foot. The tang for the spring is 112mm ( 4.41 inches ) from centre of bolt.

In the USA the Breva 1100 has a different stand to the rest of the world, why?? Is it longer??

I need to do something soon as I have already done 4000km and I have to be careful where I park.

Greg

 

[GrahamNZ]

Greg

I know how you feel. Fitting new suspension to my Triumph Trophy raised the ride height by 20mm, making the already too-short side stand even worse, and with a new rear tyre the centrestand would barely allow the wheel to rotate, even on a very flat surface. I eased the problem by welding extra bits onto the feet of both stands.

Looking at my Breva, there is room to add bits onto the undersides of the centrestand feet but the downside would be that even greater effort will be required to deploy it because the leverage ratio will be worsened.

Similarly a bit could be added to the underside of the sidestand foot without it hitting the exhaust pipe as it bends towards the collector. I added this brazed on bit to my sidestand foot to make it less likely to sink into a soft surfaces and to make it easier to lower the stand with my boot heel. The reflective red dot is to make it easier to look down from the saddle to check if the stand is down when the engine is stopped.

In your case, for the centrestand someting like curved U-shaped additions formed from 30 x 3 MSF would be my thinking. And something similar but with an L-shaped extension as well to aid deployment.

 

[aussiegreg]

Re:Longer Side Stand and Centre stand - any ideas?

G'day Graham,

Yes the centre stand extension would cause extra leverage. also the extra weight could cause the centre stand to drroop more as the spring is not very strong.

With the side stand why did you braze the extension on, or is that kiwi for welding??. I have a Mig Welder to use.

One other way I have thought was to cut the leg, then add a pipe down one end and tack it on. then put a 20-25mm slevve over the pipe, then stick the pipe back up the other end of the stand and fully weld it all. The reason for the pipe down the guts is to strenghten the cuts and then the 20-25mm sleeve holds it all together. If that makes sense.

But my dealer thought that it may be cast steel and can't be welded. I thought it was steel stretch to get the tapered leg look.

Greg

Ps. I like the idea of a bigger foot for softer ground.

Also what is 30 x 3 MSF ??

 

[john zibell]

Re:Longer Side Stand and Centre stand - any ideas?

aussiegreg wrote:

G'day Graham,

Yes the centre st

One other way I have thought was to cut the leg, then add a pipe down one end and tack it on. then put a 20-25mm slevve over the pipe, then stick the pipe back up the other end of the stand and fully weld it all. The reason for the pipe down the guts is to strenghten the cuts and then the 20-25mm sleeve holds it all together. If that makes sense.

But my dealer thought that it may be cast steel and can't be welded. I thought it was steel stretch to get the tapered leg look.

Greg

Ps. I like the idea of a bigger foot for softer ground.

Also what is 30 x 3 MSF ??

Greg,

The side stand and center stand are just plain steel pipe. Welding isn't an issue. I've shorten several for people that have lowered bikes and use the technique you describe. The issue is to keep the weight as low as possible so the spring keeps everything up.

Use a very thin walled pipe on the inner that matches the ID of the original side stand pipe. I'd weld the inner piece and than find pipe that matches the original and cut in in half and weld the two halves in place for added strenght and appearance. Just be sure to do all cutting and welding with the side stand removed. After you have ground your welds down and painted the stand it will appear like it is original equipment. For the center stand, have you considered riveting or bolting hard plastic (like knee slider material) to the bottom to increase height? I'd probably drill and tap two holes on the center stand contact area for 4mm thread then use the plastic to get the height I want. The holes for the bolts would be countersunk so they won't touch the pavement. They might need replacement every once an awhile, but it shouldn't be hard to do. That should keep the weight to a minimum,

 

[GrahamNZ]

Re:Longer Side Stand and Centre stand - any ideas?

Greg

I always use gas "welding" because that's what I have and have been at it for about 48 years. The foot on my Breva is actually "nickel-bronze welded" on. Can't see that fusion welding wouldn't work but more heat is involved and so more paint damage occurs. I wrapped the leg lower end with wet asbestos card wadding to minimise heat damage.

Unless my eyesight is failing too, the Breva's sidestand leg is tapered, which suggests more than just a bit of mild steel. Shortening a stand leg is generally a safer operation than lengthening one where welding can cause softening. Stand legs tend to be of tougher material than just mild steel, which is why attacking the foot, which is often of mild steel, is a safer approach. I have seen welded stand legs bend on heavy bikes.

30 x 3 MSF = 30mm x 3mm mild steel flat. Close to 1.25" x 1/8"

Agreed that any electric welding on a stand should be done with the stand removed from the bike.

Here's the larger stand foot on my Buell. I can't remember the last bike with a steel sidestand where I haven't "brazed" on larger foot. Forged steel stands happily take a brazed on foot too.

 

[aussiegreg]

Re:Longer Side Stand and Centre stand - any ideas?

G'day John,

I will look at a cut and shut on the side stand and the centre stand with plastic sounds good if you can get black, but if side stand works well I may do the same with Centre stand and look for a stronger spring.


But I think that the solution is too use the Stelvio side and maybe centre stand as the Guzzi quoted ground clearance is 25mm higher than the Norge. From photos that I can see that the stands mount at the same place on the motor. Also from info on parts manuals that I can find is that the brackets look similiar.

However the mount point on the stand looks inconclusive in parts manuals but photos look similiar. The springs used are the same part no. for both Norge and Stelvio.

Does anyone have access to a Stelvio and Norge to compare brackets and lengths, as if not too expensive I would rather buy complete than Modify.

Greg

 

[GrahamNZ]

Re:Longer Side Stand and Centre stand - any ideas?

Greg

The sidestand on my Breva is indeed tapered, making the sleeving idea even less attractive. The spings on both my stands are convincingly strong enough to cope with a slight weight increase. The big foot I've added certainly does weigh a bit, but without any problems.

Screwing oggy knobs or other plastic extensions onto the centrestand feet would worry me in case one broke or came off and caused the bike to topple sideways unexpectedly. I once had a Honda ST1100 fall away from me at a petrol station and fall against a bowser.....and that was just because the ground wasn't as level as I thought it was as I pushed the bike off the stand!

Modifying is usually my first preference because it's cheaper - I wonder what Stelvio centre and side stands would cost? - satisfying, and doesn't produce surplus components. Each to his own, of course.

 

[aussiegreg]

Re:Longer Side Stand and Centre stand - any ideas?

GrahamNZ wrote:

Greg

The sidestand on my Breva is indeed tapered, making the sleeving idea even less attractive. The spings on both my stands are convincingly strong enough to cope with a slight weight increase. The big foot I've added certainly does weigh a bit, but without any problems.

Screwing oggy knobs .....off the stand!

Modifying is usually my first preference because it's cheaper - I wonder what Stelvio centre and side stands would cost? - satisfying, and doesn't produce surplus components. Each to his own, of course.

G'day Graham,

Being tapered may cause problems but if put pipe down centre then a 29mm long sleeve over pipe in the gap where stand extended should strenghten ??? or cut foot off and sleeve inside and out.

Yes plastic will be a problem. I have had a VFR750 fall in a similiar way.

Modifying should be cheaper as I have just found out it is about $300 Ozzy dollars. If $100 I would just buy it, but $300 is a bit steep.

Greg

 

[GrahamNZ]

Re:Longer Side Stand and Centre stand - any ideas?

Greg

The more I think about it the more sure I am that my original suggestion is what I'd do. As I've posted before, upgrading the suspension on my Triumph Trophy required a similar mod which proved very successful. Using gas welding I didn't even need to remove the stands. The method suggested also allows for the extension bits to be cut off in future if ever wanted. I would stay away from cutting and extending the sidestand leg. I would cut it near the foot if shortening was the goal though.

The stand prices you give are less than I'd expected. Here, a centrestand for a V-Strom is over $500NZ.

 

[aussiegreg]

Re:Longer Side Stand and Centre stand - any ideas?

GrahamNZ wrote:

Greg

The more I think about it the more sure I am that my original suggestion is what I'd do. As I've posted before, upgrading the suspension on my Triumph Trophy required a similar mod which proved very successful. Using gas welding I didn't even need to remove the stands. The method suggested also allows for the extension bits to be cut off in future if ever wanted. I would stay away from cutting and extending the sidestand leg. I would cut it near the foot if shortening was the goal though.

The stand prices you give are less than I'd expected. Here, a centrestand for a V-Strom is over $500NZ.

G'day Graham,

Gas welding may be the best or TIG welding maybe. I think that I will just cut the foot off at the bottom. Then make up a bigger foot already welded onto a pipe say 60mm long that has another pipe of 29mm long slipped on it. This will add strength by having support up in the original stand then the 29mm is the added length that then adds strength again. I will then slip this all up into the original stand and gas weld or TIG weld.

I need some work done at an engineering shop anyway on one of my mowers, so I will see if they can do something as I don't have TIG or gas welding and put it all on the one bill through work. One of the guys in the bike club runs a big engineering shop.

I measured a Stelvio stand and it is 40mm longer, so maybe a touch long.

Greg

 

[john zibell]

Re:Longer Side Stand and Centre stand - any ideas?

Greg,

A possible material for you center stand plastic could be material from knee sliders. It is pretty tough stuff and readily available. One puck may provide the two pieces you need or more. The other would be spare material for when the originals eventually wear down.

 

[Valkrunner]

Low Tech solution to kick stand, I added a hockey puck to my wife's Norge. Drilled and tapped four holes RTV and screws has been using it for 6000 miles without a problem. It was a great improvement for her as the OEM side stand made lifting the bike quite difficult for her. As for the center stand she carries a 1/2" piece of ply with her, she rides over and parks the rear wheel on it. Just that difference allows her to pop the Norge up on the center standby herself, I was quite surprised how much a difference that made and started using this technique at home on all my bikes when I am putting them on the center stand. At five foot even she needs any extra help she can get lifting the bike. Good luck.