Memjet Module

[Mi_ka]

I think that memjet and similar modules do not affect closed loop operation where most cruising takes place as the ECU just looks at the lambda sensor and maintains a 14.7 AFR ratio. So there should not be any consumption difference when going for a long cruise - on a twisty spirited drive though there should be one.

 

[GTM®]

I think that memjet and similar modules do not affect closed loop operation where most cruising takes place as the ECU just looks at the lambda sensor and maintains a 14.7 AFR ratio. So there should not be any consumption difference when going for a long cruise - on a twisty spirited drive though there should be one.

Mi_ka, it looks like this and the FatDuc resistor fit inline of the OEM 02-sensor, and as such, attempt to utilize sensor-offset to revise fueling in closed loop. I have watched the FatDuc resisitor deliver a flat-lined 10.0+ AFR on the dyno in 0 seconds.
As previously stated, AFR's are closer to ~16 to mid 17's (in closed loop, then go very rich above) on all post-'06 Guzzi.

 

[Mi_ka]

Don't they go inline to the temperature sensor?

 

[guzziben47]

Yes. The Memjet is different than the Fatduc. The Memjet goes in-line with the temperature sensor off the airbox, not the 02 sensor. I'm told the Memjet works better than the Fatduc for that reason. I got mine from a company in Italy, but I've since learned they are actually made in the USA(!)

 

[GTM®]

Yes. The Memjet is different than the Fatduc. The Memjet goes in-line with the temperature sensor off the airbox, not the 02 sensor. I'm told the Memjet works better than the Fatduc for that reason. I got mine from a company in Italy, but I've since learned they are actually made in the USA(!)

Lovely. So the ECU does some interesting things to the fueling and timing in regard to the ambient air temps. Interesting to hear what it does for you in the long run. Smart money would put it on the dyno to check where it's fueling.

 

[Mi_ka]

Fueling in the dark, in my opinion...

 

[guzziben47]

That's what the guy said: it affects the fueling and the timing. I couldn't follow the technical terms, but he said something like it was the Euro map that was hurting the performance; the Memjet makes the ECU switch to a different map, and that makes the engine run better.

Anyway, I hope it doesn't hurt anything. They seem to be popular in Italy; and Memjet markets them for Guzzis (unlike the Fatduc which is obviously intended for Ducatis), so that's what originally got my attention.

I need to understand more about fuel injection and how all these things work. Todd, it looks like you have three different products. I don't know how each one is different, and what they all do. Again, I'm not looking for wheelie producing performance, so I'm not sure whether one or another or some combination of what you have would be best for me. I need to understand all this better, then I'll take it a step further.

In the meantime, the bandaid is making me feel much better about the bike....

 

[guzzi jon]

Just a question, I am getting Todds full setup, but have used a fatduc with marginal improvment as it effects only the O2 sensor. If the memjet effects the temp sensor, would it not cause an overly rich problem across the RPM and throttle range? These suckers already run rich after you open the throttle and rev em, if the memjet continues to change the AFR across the range you would really be running stupid rich at higher RPM's... just a thought

 

[guzziben47]

I think the answer to that is "yes," that is the down side of using an ECU fooler, and that is why I said the Power Commander is likely a superior product (and I only say "likely" because I haven't tried one yet).

But if you regularly ride between 3-4,000 rpms, then what difference does it make if the engine runs too rich at high rpm? I'm an old man for chrissake; there are times when I just want to take a relaxing ride through the backroads where I live. And even on the highway I'm well over the speed limit before I reach 4,000 rpms.

Also, I'm not sure if it really hurts anything except fuel mileage to run a little too rich at high rpm. The engine seems to make more power over the entire rev range, not just the low end. So even if the high end is too rich, I don't see any negative effect on performance.

Right now I'm just trying to figure out what he hell a "fuel map" is. If you already have a good understanding of all this stuff, go for the Power Commander, and be happy. You made a good choice!!!

 

[GuzziMoto]

I need to understand more about fuel injection and how all these things work. Todd, it looks like you have three different products. I don't know how each one is different, and what they all do. Again, I'm not looking for wheelie producing performance, so I'm not sure whether one or another or some combination of what you have would be best for me. I need to understand all this better, then I'll take it a step further.

In the meantime, the bandaid is making me feel much better about the bike....

Todds ECU PCV AutoTune package is not just about increasing the power output. Yeah, I'm sure it does increase the max power output of my bike. But the big difference you get from improving the fueling is the quality of the power output. The smooth but instant reaction to throttle inputs. It is not going to turn your Guzzi into a beast that pulls wheelies every time you get on the gas, what it can do is smooth out the lurching and hesitation and provide a more direct connection from the throttle to the rear wheel.
It is not magic, just better.
The cheaper band-aids are just that. And if that is all you can afford/justify, well I reckon it is better then nothing. But where the Memjet and FatDuc will improve the fueling in some areas (while maybe making it worse in others) the full monty kit from Todd makes it work the way it should have to begin with but never will stock.

 

[Mi_ka]

... I'm not sure if it really hurts anything except fuel mileage to run a little too rich at high rpm. The engine seems to make more power over the entire rev range, not just the low end. So even if the high end is too rich, I don't see any negative effect on performance.

I need to understand more about fuel injection and how all these things work.

Crash course on generic ECU policy.
Upper line-power output, dashed line-consumption.

For ideal gas quality, any richer than 12.6 is a waste of gas and any leaner than 15.4 is bad economy, for normally aspired engines. AFR 14.7 leaves no free oxygen so the catalytic converter kills efficiently all smog gases.
Going leaner than 13.5 raises the combustion temperature and causes wear and other engine health problems, besides making less power.

So, on mild throttle openings the ECU looks at the O2 sensor to achieve ideal 14.7 (closed loop operation) and pass smog regulations (and improve mpg) and on heavier openings or conditions (cold start, faster rpms etc) the ECU is looking at maps made accordingly for best power and combustion temperature to improve reliability (open loop operation).

Or so it is supposed so. Many man hours needed and different conditions to meet and as mama Guzzi seems to have not done the best possible job, here comes Todd and patches the problem in an intelligent way. Do not forget that factories prefer to play safe on smog stuff depriving us the happiness of a proper running engine, as if a handful of lean running Guzzis will save the planet.

I do not know about FatDuc but Memjet stuff just fool the ECU feel there is a colder climate so the ECU enriches the AFR to go with the thicker air. So, on open loop operation, you end up going richer all over the map. At places where the map is too lean that is ok but on places where it is rich, it goes tooo rich, revving slower and increasing consumption.
That's mostly all.

P.S On small throttle openings there is not much heat produced so no problem with the hotter combustion.
Such small openings are usually made in city traffic or other slow conditions so a leaner running is preffered to improve ridability by not having a doggy motor thrusting forward on tiny throttle changes.

P.S 2 Todd's solution is not just a few clicks smart a*h steal: It involves many man hours on a dyno to get proper results on different conditions so when he asks for $500 when Bandaids are $200 worth, he is not expensive in my opinion. In my eyes Bandaids are a steal. Anyway, I hope Todd could offer better prices in the future as sales go up in numbers :whistle:

 

[guzziben47]

I really think you guys keep missing the point. IT IS NOT THE PRICE. It is the fact that I don't understand what it is Todd is selling. There are three boxes: an RX, a PC and an AT. I don't understand what those three boxes do. I know I would have to do some adjusting on a PC after those items are installed; and I don't feel comfortable doing all that without knowing what I'm doing. I don't even know where the ECU is, let alone how to remove it and send it along. And I don't want to have a lot of down time, since it's almost August and I've been doing more tinkering with the bike than riding it since I bought it two months ago.

I think it would be great if Todd or someone could explain exactly what a "re flash" is. I thought that was reprogramming the ECU but I don't get what the big red thing is that apparently get's attached to the top of the ECU. Also, if the re flash reprograms the ECU, I don't get why that isn't all that is needed.

All we need is a new map, right? Isn't that what Todd is doing by re flashing the ECU? And if that is it, what does the Power Commander do. I thought the company didn't make a PC for the Stelvio; if that is true, what is the PC Todd is selling? Are there new maps in the Power Commander? If there are, then why do I need a reflash?

I take it the Autotune automatically tunes the bike for you, but I thought that was the purpose of the first two mods. What additional tuning am I doing with the Autotune? Won't the PC work without the AT? I've heard of people getting a PC for their bikes, but I've never heard of the AT.

Can you see the problem? It is not the price. I paid a grand for a set of saddlebags; paying a grand to make the bike run well is not unreasonable. The problem is I have no idea what any of this stuff is. If I lived near Todd I could have him install it and get it running right, and I have no doubt I'd be happy. But I'm 2,000 miles away and I'd be doing all this myself.

Again, I have no doubt the full monty is best for the right people, but I don't think it's the right solution for everyone. I'm lucky I could at least figure out how to do the valves, TB's and TPS myself. Some of the people on this list can't even do that; they have to rely on a mechanic to do it for them. How are they going to do all this?

I keep thinking of the guy in Sacramento who is still stuck with a bike that runs like crap. I was in the same position as him. Thanks to the help of the people on this forum, my very limited mechanical skills and a Memjet, I've been able to climb out of the whole I was in. If there are people like me who could get a little benefit from something like Memjet I feel like I should try to help them out the same way people here helped me. That's the point. I'm not advocating the Memjet over the RX, PC-V, AT package. I think the full package is better. I'm just trying to help people like me, who don't know what they are doing and don't live near anyone who does!!!

 

[kwn306]

I really think you guys keep missing the point. IT IS NOT THE PRICE. It is the fact that I don't understand what it is Todd is selling. There are three boxes: an RX, a PC and an AT. I don't understand what those three boxes do. I know I would have to do some adjusting on a PC after those items are installed; and I don't feel comfortable doing all that without knowing what I'm doing. I don't even know where the ECU is, let alone how to remove it and send it along. And I don't want to have a lot of down time, since it's almost August and I've been doing more tinkering with the bike than riding it since I bought it two months ago.

I think it would be great if Todd or someone could explain exactly what a "re flash" is. I thought that was reprogramming the ECU but I don't get what the big red thing is that apparently get's attached to the top of the ECU. Also, if the re flash reprograms the ECU, I don't get why that isn't all that is needed.

All we need is a new map, right? Isn't that what Todd is doing by re flashing the ECU? And if that is it, what does the Power Commander do. I thought the company didn't make a PC for the Stelvio; if that is true, what is the PC Todd is selling? Are there new maps in the Power Commander? If there are, then why do I need a reflash?

I take it the Autotune automatically tunes the bike for you, but I thought that was the purpose of the first two mods. What additional tuning am I doing with the Autotune? Won't the PC work without the AT? I've heard of people getting a PC for their bikes, but I've never heard of the AT.

Can you see the problem? It is not the price. I paid a grand for a set of saddlebags; paying a grand to make the bike run well is not unreasonable. The problem is I have no idea what any of this stuff is. If I lived near Todd I could have him install it and get it running right, and I have no doubt I'd be happy. But I'm 2,000 miles away and I'd be doing all this myself.

Again, I have no doubt the full monty is best for the right people, but I don't think it's the right solution for everyone. I'm lucky I could at least figure out how to do the valves, TB's and TPS myself. Some of the people on this list can't even do that; they have to rely on a mechanic to do it for them. How are they going to do all this?

I keep thinking of the guy in Sacramento who is still stuck with a bike that runs like crap. I was in the same position as him. Thanks to the help of the people on this forum, my very limited mechanical skills and a Memjet, I've been able to climb out of the whole I was in. If there are people like me who could get a little benefit from something like Memjet I feel like I should try to help them out the same way people here helped me. That's the point. I'm not advocating the Memjet over the RX, PC-V, AT package. I think the full package is better. I'm just trying to help people like me, who don't know what they are doing and don't live near anyone who does!!!

Ben,

You bring up a lot of good points that need to be addressed rather than just throwing $$$ at something and not understanding what the process is.

Lets face it, Mother Guzzi and its band of dealers in North America suck for the most part, there are very few good ones but on the left coast and I live on the right coast. Here in VA my dealer showed me how to set up and service my bike because I live so far away and rack up a lot of miles in a years time. All this time I thought I was doing it correctly until John (one of the moderators) and Pete Roper chimed into a thread I had posted. My dealer was doing the process wrong, he cliams this is the way he was taught at the factory school in CA. Now if this is the case Mother Guzzi is their own worst enemy.

I have asked my Guzzi VA State Rep if there are Tech Sessions given at Rallies or at the Nationals and he looked at me like I was on drugs. As a member of the Concours Owners Group (COG) we as a group hold at least two tech sessions a year in each region of the country plus we do a two day session at Nationals for the soul purpose of educating the owner about his bike so if there is a break down you can 95% of the time get yourself home.

The Guzzi Nationals are going to be held in VA in 2012 and it is my goal to have someone with a good education of Guzzi's put on some type of Tech Session so that us newbies to the Guzzi brand can have a general idea how to service these critters, then all we would need is a parts supplier. Maybe Todd could give a brief discussion on the function of his reflash and PC & AT, whats involved to make it work and how much technical work needs to be done. Like you stated his fix might not be for everyone, but his reflash could very well be.

Rather then everyone getting so technical on this board about different fixes to the Stelvio, they need to bring the written word down to the level of the person that is having the problems, just a thought and my 0.02 worth. For example; I see the word "trim" used all the time, trim what? I have no idea what that person is talking about. I do not consider myself as mechanically challenged, I can rebuild anything short of the Space Shuttle without a manual, but these Italian technical terms have got me by the balls.

 

[kmartin]

Pretty much everything that has been asked here about Todds stuff is explained somewhere on the board. I looks like to me, someone (probably Todd) should collect the best parts and organize it in one spot.
At any rate, I'm now, after 10,000 mi, learing how to fine tune the PC-V for my desires. I'd be glad to share some ideas with anyone whos ready to fiddle.

 

[DanPez]

What has been repeated often is for sure that the Guzzi Dealers are not helping us with our problems.
The people that have little mechanical background can fiddle with the bike to get it up and running the best they can with all the support from this forum ....... and believe you me the forum has LOTS of information.
People here that have a good mechanical knowledge can probably say ..... (Who needs a Dealer!)

As far as modifying I am not one to take the bike apart at this point when I know people that are much more qualified than I am spent hours and hours designing a vehicle that works.
When the time come that parts need to be replaced because of normal wear and tear ...... this is when I will look into improving.

At 3500km .....I fixed the problem with the gas tank check valve .... now it works fine! (Damage as been done to the paint ...will see what the dealer has to say)
The spark plugs caps are cheap quality giving me intermittent problems..... I will order the parts next maintenance will change!
Valves are starting to tick ..... will recheck this weekend!

I find this to be a regular maintenance.

 

[cgalardi]

Hi Daniel,

A little OT but not sure what you mean by "valves are starting to tick". Every Guzzi engine I have ever heard has audibly ticking valves(except the hydraulic lifter engines circa 2003). It's the nature of the beast.

 

[GTM®]

From this THREAD; https://www.guzzitech.com/forum/160/2686.html

Per my prior post, "Re: At Dynojet with Norge" -- Dynojet will *NOT* be releasing a PC-V until their 02-controller is completed. The test of the current prototype did not return positive results. However, they have built me a limited run of PC-V's.

Break-down:
1. PC-V: Power Commander V(5) - stand alone fuel module for fueling above 40% throttle. Price is now $409.95.
2. AutoTune: Piggyback module to PC-V (only) above that provides real-time fueling changes, on-the-fly, as you ride... using a user-set Air Fuel Ratio (AFR). The AutoTune unit is a plugs into the module PC-V (ONLY) and allows you to pick/change your AFR, and your bike will auto-adjust, real-time, as you ride. You can also build/store a map for *your* bike by a simple click of the software, and store it on the PC-V... which the AutoTune will then use as a baseline to correct -OR- an additional bar-mounted toggle switch away from going from a stored map to a real time pre-set AutoTune AFR correction. Cost is: $249.00
3. ECU exchange*: Provides full fueling access to the PC-V (above). Other revised parameters such as timing for pre-detonation/"ping" and performance based on temperature, was $640, now $500 *For Non-public roadway use ONLY*

For my stand-alone Stage I (for above package) GT-Rx ECU re-flash, see this thread; https://www.guzzitech.com/forum/160/4129.html

Other questions likely answered in the above threads, if not, post there... happy to respond (there).

 

[DanPez]

Hi Daniel,

A little OT but not sure what you mean by "valves are starting to tick". Every Guzzi engine I have ever heard has audibly ticking valves(except the hydraulic lifter engines circa 2003). It's the nature of the beast.

I should have mentioned that after a while you get to know the sound of your engine.
Therefore any abnormal sound like valves that are ...... over ticking? :huh:

 

[cgalardi]

You must have a keen sense of sound. I don't think I could distinguish any change in ticking noises on this engine over all the other nice lil noises it makes Luckily the valve clearances are a snap to adjust so no big deal to recheck them.

 

[guzziben47]

I found another bandaid. Rapid Bike sells a module that gets in between the ECU and the injectors, so you can squirt more gas in the engine than the ECU would otherwise dictate. One good thing is that the Rapid Bike module - if I am understanding it correctly - would let you enrichen the mix at some rpm ranges but not others. So that would address one of the concerns about the other bandaids. On the other hand, the Rapid Bike module costs more than Todd's "reflash" and it looks like it would be more difficult to use (you have to program the RP Module with your computer, among other things). Anyway, I don't know if anyone has ever tried one (I don't plan to), but I guess it's another option.

One thing I don't get about any of the bandaids is how they can work without disconnecting the Lamda input. I guess the input from the air temp sensor must override the input from the 02 sensor or the Memjet would not work. Regardless, that is another advantage I see to getting the re-flash. My understanding is the reflash involves disconnecting or otherwise disabling the input from the 02 sensor, and it makes sense that further modifications would work better without having that in there. If that is correct, then a reflash alone should work better than a Fatduc or a Memjet.

I saw a comparison of the full monty with the fatduc somewhere on this forum, can anyone say, based on their experience, how the re-flash alone compares with the fatduc or the memjet (or even the Rapid Bike)?