• Ciao Guest - You’ve landed at the ultimate Guzzi site. NEW FORUM REGISTRATIONS REQUIRE EMAIL ACTIVATION - CHECK YOUR SPAM FOLDER - Use the CONTACT above if you need help. New to the forum? For all new members, we require ONE post in the Introductions section at the bottom, in order to post in most of the other sections. ALWAYS TRY A SEARCH BEFORE STARTING A NEW TOPIC - Most questions you may have, have likely been already answered. DON'T BE A DRIVE-BY POSTER: As a common courtesy, check back in and reply within 24 hours, or your post will be deleted. Note there's decades of heavily experienced Guzzi professionals on this site, all whom happily give endless amounts of their VALUABLE time for free; BE COURTEOUS AND RESPECTFUL!
  • There is ZERO tolerance on personal attacks and ANY HYPERLINKS to PRODUCT(S) or other competing website(s), including personal pages, social media or other Forums. This ALSO INCLUDES ECU DIAGnostic software, questions and mapping. We work very hard to offer commercially supported products and to keep info relevant here. First offense is a note, second is a warning, third time will get you banned from the site. We don't have the time to chase repeat (and ignorant) offenders. This is NOT a social media platform; It's an ad-free, privately funded website, in small help with user donations. Be sure to see the GTM STORE link above; ALL product purchases help support the site, or you can upgrade your Forum profile or DONATE via the link above.
  • Be sure to see the GTM STORE link also above for our 700+ product inventory, including OEM parts and many of our 100% Made-in-SoCal-USA GTM products and engine kits. In SoCal? Click the SERVICE tab above for the best in service, tires, tuning and installation of our products or custom work, and don't miss our GT MotoCycles® (not) art on the BUILDS tab above. WE'RE HERE ONLINE ONLY - NO PHONE CALLS MADE OR RECEIVED - DO NOT EMAIL AND ASK QUESTIONS OR ASK TO CALL YOU.
  • Like the new V100, GuzziTech is full throttle into the future! We're now running on an all-new server and we've updated our Forum software. The visual differences are obvious, but hopefully you'll notice the super-fast speed. If you notice any glitches or have any issues, please post on the Site Support section at the bottom. If you haven't yet, please upgrade your account which is covered in the Site Support section or via the DONATE tab above, which gives you full site access including the DOWNLOADS section. We really appreciate every $ and your support to keep this site ad-free. Create an account, sign in, upgrade your account, and enjoy. See you on the road in 2024.

(more) EICMA news

Hmmm well yes and then again no.

You are indeed right, the brain cells are churning with the design issues for it and I have spoken to a mate who is a lot more experienced with CNC than I am, and he got excited.....

But, and it is a big but.... Winter in our part of the world is the best riding weather.... not that I mean to rub it in at all. :whistle:
 
I like the red LM12. It pays a nice homage to the original LM1 IMO.

If they produce it and bring it to the U.S., I would/will buy it.

I would guess that the weight will be less than pretty much any current Guzzi, which with that sweet 8v motor should make it a great riding machine. Hell, that motor in the Stelvio is a blast to drive. If they kept that new bike in the 400's (low 400's preferably) it should be awesome.
 
For your viewing pleasure, a few more (general) photos.

salon-milan-eicma-2009-7.jpg
:mrgreen:
 
salon-milan-eicma-2009-110.jpg


MPC Motardone ... 1450cc, 149hp @ 5500tpm. Looks like a Guzzi roundfin engine?!
 
Mike.C said:
Unless they are a design or trechnical breakthrough, these bikes if they make it to the show room floor will IMO have a short commercial life,

It's not enough that all 3 bikes won the best design award at the largest motorcycle show in the world? :?: Common man, we could be witnessing the rebirth of Guzzi, i hope it takes off and is gobbled by the masses, that we way can sulk and mumble something about how we liked them before they were cool :cool:

AlexM

11/11/2009 - Guzzi wins the Motorcycle Design Association prize

Condividi--The legendary Italian brand Moto Guzzi, part of the Gruppo Piaggio, has won a Motorcycle Design Association Award, confirming the success of the design studio directed by Miguel Galluzzi. The award was presented on Wednesday morning in the Sala Scorpio at the 2009 EICMA Milan show and praised the Italian style, quality and professionalism of the Piaggio design centre.

The award was presented by the president of the Motorcycle Design Association Glynn Kerr to Lopez Dario, who represented the graphic section of the Piaggio design team. The award recognizes the best motorbike design in the world of two wheels. Also at the ceremony was Donato Cannatello of the international design association.

For 2009, the 165 members of the Motorcycle Design Association decided to make the award to not one but three models, all from Guzzi. The award was for the V12 Strada, the V12 LM and the V12 X.
 
RJVB said:
MPC Motardone ... 1450cc, 149hp @ 5500tpm. Looks like a Guzzi roundfin engine?!
It's their water-cooled 2VPC Big bore monster engine. Sure hope to swing a leg over one, one day.
 
Mike.C said:
It might be that I am a "stick in the mud", but I think most modern industrial design lacks something.

Sure these bikes might appeal to the 20 year old who has too much cash and wants to pull wheelies from every traffic light, but IMO the designs will date very quickly - something that I thought the Italians were generally very good at avoiding.

Unless they are a design or trechnical breakthrough, these bikes if they make it to the show room floor will IMO have a short commercial life, just like most things aimed at the rev head consumer who are driven by fashion not form. They certainly would have trouble being put into the "classic" or "significant" dsign category when written about in 10 years time.

Maybe it's the Piaggio influence.


This is the point most folks are missing IMO. If you don't make something that 20 somethings will look at and buy with their expendable cash flow, then Guzzi will not survive. Guzzi/Piaggio is not in this for a hobby. They have to actually sell motorcycles. It's obvious that that isn't going to happen without bringing in new customers.

If Guzzi has to produce a few bikes that don't please the corncob pipe and suspender crowd, then so be it. For the most part they ain't buying new Guzzi's anyway.

I've heard that this new LM12 weighs in the neighborhood of 400 pounds. If that's true, with that 8v motor, that would make it one of the fastest production Guzzi's ever built I would guess. It would do a great deal for breaking the image of the slow stodgey Guzzi.

I say congratulations to Guzzi for having the balls to push the envelope a bit.

And put me down for an LM12. :D
 
It is not going to be enough to look like something a 20 something who wants a Ducati StreetFighter would like to buy. It would also have to run like it. I don't see that happening with the current package. If they design a new engine (after they spent all that money on the 8 valves? I don't see it) and it produces the power AND is light weight then great, I am all for that. But so far all I have seen is a few show bikes that have the same lack of design focus and functionality as most of Terreblanche's other designs. I am not that old and like many modern designs, the Ghezzi bike is great (just needs a paint job). But with a few exceptions, Terreblanche has had limited success. There is a reason he is not at Ducati anymore.
Guzzi has managed to create a few great designs that had style, elegance, and functionality, the V11, MGS-01, and Griso to name a few recent ones. For those of you who find the new show bikes exciting I am happy. But I do not share your enthusiasm. Whether it is the styling or the bad design of the rear suspension (mounting a shock so that it is 100% unsprung weight?) or the recycling of the Hypermotard design with a Guzzi drivetrain (a Guzzi motard, that is stupid) I find little to be excited about.
 
11/11/2009 - Guzzi wins the Motorcycle Design Association prize
The award was for the V12 Strada, the V12 LM and the V12 X.
AlexM

Can you link pics to the V12 Strada, V12 LM, and the V12 X? Or are the concept bikes we're looking at the referenced bikes?
 
NeroGuzzi said:
Can you link pics to the V12 Strada, V12 LM, and the V12 X? Or are the concept bikes we're looking at the referenced bikes?
Same bikes linked earlier in this same thread or click HERE.
 
3 concepts, I hardly believe they'd turn into 3 new models at once. A single one, maybe, uniting ideas from all 3, that could develop into 3 different directions later if it catches.

The V7 Clubman is gorgeous (heh, club, what did I say above? :D), but still uses the vintage 750cc engine. That does give it a touch of authenticity, but look at the weight of the V12 frame. They'd make perfect platforms for a lightened 750cc version of the 8V engine. More use of aluminium, magnesium, rethink the bore/stroke, I reckon it ought to be possible to modernise it enough to get something like 80-85hp out of it while preserving the transverse 90º design principle. That would make it a very nice motor for these concepts (though the 12 would then come to stand as simply the number after 11...)
 
MG has to appeal to the 20 somethings. As mentioned earlier, too bad if the new concepts do not resonate with the suspender/corn cob pipe crowd - they wouldn't be buying them anyway.

However, this 60 year old will be first on the waiting list for a V12 Strada or the Clubman.

Kudos to MG.
 
oca said:
MG has to appeal to the 20 somethings. As mentioned earlier, too bad if the new concepts do not resonate with the suspender/corn cob pipe crowd - they wouldn't be buying them anyway.

However, this 60 year old will be first on the waiting list for a V12 Strada or the Clubman.

Kudos to MG.

Agreed! Although some would have Guzzi market a bike to 60-70 year old cruisers I think the future is elsewhere. I'm with you, saving my money and hoping they build that green super moto!
 
Yeah, but a bike like that will only appeal to the 60-70 year old suspenders and corn cob pipe cruiser crowd.
Guzzi apparently needs something with either less style or maybe more "plasticky" style.
I agree that Guzzi needs to keep producing new designs so that it can stay current. But the notion that they need special designs to appeal to the "20 something" crowd and that all it takes is a different look to appeal to them is questionable. While I personally don't find the Breva and Norge lines to be beautiful, Guzzi has come up with a few designs in the last 10 or 15 years that are pretty well accepted as beautiful by any standard. But here at the show all I see so far from them is a tarted up V7 Cafe (a nice design to start with) and a few bikes that look dis-jointed and fake. There are nice elements in them but they lack a uniform design to unite the design elements. And in some areas they are just way over done. All in all they are very Japanese. That may be what you mean about appealing to the 2o something crowd, but if you have to sell your soul and design appliances to sell to them then I say the price is too high.
 
For me there is a lack of design consistency. Great slim tank and seat unit on the Red v12 allowing the heads to sit out in the wind like they should.

An awful lazy join to the downpipes. Then the underslung can looks great like the engine was designed for that can back in 19??

Not sure if the horizontal rear suspension would work or is just stylised but if it works why not give it removable covers for a hardtail look and road crap resistance?

And what are the two slotted covers either side of the tank. They would make great oil coolers/heat exchangers but i suspect they are just bling to cover the electrics.

Its all personal preference though ...... the important thing is Guzzi (Piaggio) are looking to the future .... and makes me wish I'd gone back to the Milan show this year :D

Art
 
I have read that SuperMotos aren't selling as well as the magazine writers had believed they would. That doesn't really surprise me. They are fun toys. At some point a motorcycle that can't really tour, carry a passenger, hold real hard luggage, offer a measure of wind protection as an option, is uncomfortable other than in the twisties begins to lose a big part of the motorcycling comunities purchasing interest.

I personally think motorcycles should do all of these things, wouldn't it be novel to present intelligent bikes that can be dressed up the way the rider sees fit? Isn't that what Guzzi riders want? BMW fits luggage to most of their line. That seems like a good starting point for new designs and designers. Is it not possible to fit a rear seat that is sexy? Is it not possible to look at making functional improvements that offer true value and something other than cheap bling? In architectural terms, once they spoke of "firmness, commodity, and delight. That would be the soundness of the machine, it's true usefulness and the sheer joy of it's visual design. An object might take into account these things and become something more than just cheap and trashy bling. MV Agusta... nothing but beauty...poetry...

I tend to think we have lost our way... and the poorly crafted, fake, ill concieved can never satisfy.

Genuine always looks correct. Why invent electronic fakery to do the work of a sliver of glass held in a small frame, an object that costs little to manufacture and never stops working???

To the subject of design... I think these design excercises ring a bit hollow...

vivo
 
Well, I think Supermotos *can* work (see Todd's reference to KTM early in this thread?), but you're right, they're pure passion toys. They're a bit the road version of the 600cc trails, aren't they? They should not just be for those who can afford them in addition to a K1200LT tourer ;)

It may also be open to discussion to what extent they only require a single cylinder :ugeek:
 
What if??? What if we were to see an expansion of modular building methods, to look at a single model as being convertable, expanding it's marketing niche? I know Triumph and MotoGuzzi understand the value of modular engine architecture but as it's used now to create different models it might be less cost effective than it might be if the idea was to be expanded upon... Aprilia made the Mille, the Falco, the Futura, all somewhat similar bikes yet what if the same frame, engine design and single model could offer all three of these possibilities within the one model designation? Is it not possible to design a modular machine that can begin as a naked or cockpit model but with the purchase of a factory half faring could be converted into another machine and again by the fitting of the lower modular fairing find another buyer equally interested? Now with programable mapping we could have three engine characters to suit different modes of riding and by expanding this idea we could be offered, for a charge by the factory, off road mapping options!!! Wow, wouldn't that be an interesting concept? The idea of involvement by the factory with end users, not just a few samples of accessories and then the factory forgets to expand the usefulness of the model...

What if factory luggage was at the start of the design brief? What if modular seating began at the outset of the design concept? Is this not where we should be headed? Of course one engine or frame cannot do everything and there would always be a place for niche machines. I think to continue useless and trival folded/creased bodywork without expanding the value of our technology lacks imagination...To make complex what needs to be simple is a misuse of resources! I don't understand the current facination with automatic shifting models? I'm not sure it's not an answer to a question we didn't ask? Virtually everyone who learned to ride a motorcycle has learned to use a clutch! If there are exception they are few... I'm not bothered by it I'm just ill informed as to why these models have come to be...

Personally I think MotoGuzzi needs a water cooled engine in order to expand into true sportbike performance. To do anything other limits the design to what the current engine architecture is best at. I own a Griso 1100 and really feel it's a rather nicely balanced package overall. I've not ridden the 8v but I'm sure it could be used for a real world sportbike, it would not ever be competitive with liter bikes that are water cooled though and that's where marketing and race wins sell some of these models, at least I think so? The stuff these guys gush over is cutting edge, the Aprilia v4 seems to hold the attention currently.

I would have be wowed if these new Guzzi designs had something new and fresh to offer. I truely think the twenty something crowd wants 600 and liter bikes with Japanese simplisity of ownership. But mostly I am disapointed because I see a lack of vision, they are excercises and I suppose they may excite some interest at these shows. I would hate to see more B'King type stuff hit the market. I'm not so impressed by more Rune type stuff either... I would be interested in a MotoGuzzi scrambler and I think it could be done as a modular bike, something practical, real, useful and within the limits of current engine characteristics...

Oh well...it was raining so I can't ride now...maybe I'll go to the shed and begin construction of that cockpit with roof over my Griso....ohhh yea...that's been done already, bummer

vivo
 
Back
Top