(more) EICMA news

[vivo]

Hey there MotoBob...

Throw a rack on that thing and it's a real motocycle...actually has a headlamp and not Christmas lights! Is it a real prototype? I've not seen this before...

vivo

 

[Zapa]

Nope, it's not real. Just another Bezzi design.

 

[waspp]

It might be that I am a "stick in the mud", but I think most modern industrial design lacks something.

Sure these bikes might appeal to the 20 year old who has too much cash and wants to pull wheelies from every traffic light, but IMO the designs will date very quickly - something that I thought the Italians were generally very good at avoiding.

Unless they are a design or trechnical breakthrough, these bikes if they make it to the show room floor will IMO have a short commercial life, just like most things aimed at the rev head consumer who are driven by fashion not form. They certainly would have trouble being put into the "classic" or "significant" dsign category when written about in 10 years time.

Maybe it's the Piaggio influence.

This is the point most folks are missing IMO. If you don't make something that 20 somethings will look at and buy with their expendable cash flow, then Guzzi will not survive. Guzzi/Piaggio is not in this for a hobby. They have to actually sell motorcycles. It's obvious that that isn't going to happen without bringing in new customers.

If Guzzi has to produce a few bikes that don't please the corncob pipe and suspender crowd, then so be it. For the most part they ain't buying new Guzzi's anyway.

I've heard that this new LM12 weighs in the neighborhood of 400 pounds. If that's true, with that 8v motor, that would make it one of the fastest production Guzzi's ever built I would guess. It would do a great deal for breaking the image of the slow stodgey Guzzi.

I say congratulations to Guzzi for having the balls to push the envelope a bit.

And put me down for an LM12.

+1 When I bought my first Guzzi it triggered an image in my head of a LM 1 on the cover of Cycle World when I was in high school what a great looking bike!
I love the green supermoto!

 

[RJVB]

More piccies (from the MG stand):
http://web170.eta.ibone.ch/bilder_mg/Be ... index.html

 

[Mike.C]

Um I have been sitting on the sidelines on this one since my earlier post that seems to have triggered more quoting than a room full of politicians, but enough is enough.

If you read the original post I said that "Sure these bikes might appeal to the 20 year old" and "Unless they are a design or trechnical breakthrough, these bikes if they make it to the show room floor will IMO have a short commercial life, just like most things aimed at the rev head consumer who are driven by fashion not form" and "They certainly would have trouble being put into the "classic" or "significant" design category when written about in 10 years time"

I am not insinuating that they might not be profitable for Piaggio given the type of consumer they obviously had in mind when designing them. I am however saying that IMO they are definitely not an excersize in industrial design that will be lauded in the hallowed halls of motoring museums and in the history books as being "significant" or "pivotal" in the history of the Moto Guzzi mototrcycle or even on a more simple level an excersize in desgin where all the boxes were ticked in a way that was "inspired". Don't tell me they have won awards - phooey.... the type of awards given out by show arganisers are intended as talking points for journos who need something to fill some pages and bear little resemblance to awards given out by a peak design body. Furthermore, given the short attention span of the target market, who if you gave them a chance would do away with the washing machine and buy a new pair of undies for every day of the year at the post Christmas sales, IMO the commercial life of this type of design will require much updating and altering every year to keep it selling... when a good design in the first place would have a much longer commmercial and profitable life.

And it is this last point that dissapoints me about much of modern industrial design - these bikes included. The designers just don't seem to be good enough to work within the constraints put on them such as budget, target market, etc etc etc and still come up with something special or at least worthy of comment.

Unfortunately, and this goes back to me maybe being a "stick in the mud" I see this problem in lots of things. Brilliance in the field of industrial design has long been hailed as the provence of Italian designers... maybe Mr Burlesconi and his penchance for bimbos has turned Italian kids into party animals at the expense of study and original thought.

 

[rturo]

That Scrambler looks pretty cool on paper especially the Air intakes, but given the weight Guzzi put into the silencer on my Breva I hate to think what they could make this weight with two.. and I haven't worked out which would melt first my boots, pants or ass ?

 

[Zapa]

Mike, I just hope that that wall of text hasn't taken much of your time when it could be dedicated to build some nice higher profile windshield, for example :evil:

 

[Mike.C]

Nope! I just missed out on my usual second cup of tea at Breakfast this morning.

 

[WitchCityBallabio]

Um I have been sitting on the sidelines on this one since my earlier post that seems to have triggered more quoting than a room full of politicians, but enough is enough.

If you read the original post I said that "Sure these bikes might appeal to the 20 year old" and "Unless they are a design or trechnical breakthrough, these bikes if they make it to the show room floor will IMO have a short commercial life, just like most things aimed at the rev head consumer who are driven by fashion not form" and "They certainly would have trouble being put into the "classic" or "significant" design category when written about in 10 years time"

I am not insinuating that they might not be profitable for Piaggio given the type of consumer they obviously had in mind when designing them. I am however saying that IMO they are definitely not an excersize in industrial design that will be lauded in the hallowed halls of motoring museums and in the history books as being "significant" or "pivotal" in the history of the Moto Guzzi mototrcycle or even on a more simple level an excersize in desgin where all the boxes were ticked in a way that was "inspired". Don't tell me they have won awards - phooey.... the type of awards given out by show arganisers are intended as talking points for journos who need something to fill some pages and bear little resemblance to awards given out by a peak design body. Furthermore, given the short attention span of the target market, who if you gave them a chance would do away with the washing machine and buy a new pair of undies for every day of the year at the post Christmas sales, IMO the commercial life of this type of design will require much updating and altering every year to keep it selling... when a good design in the first place would have a much longer commmercial and profitable life.

And it is this last point that dissapoints me about much of modern industrial design - these bikes included. The designers just don't seem to be good enough to work within the constraints put on them such as budget, target market, etc etc etc and still come up with something special or at least worthy of comment.

Unfortunately, and this goes back to me maybe being a "stick in the mud" I see this problem in lots of things. Brilliance in the field of industrial design has long been hailed as the provence of Italian designers... maybe Mr Burlesconi and his penchance for bimbos has turned Italian kids into party animals at the expense of study and original thought.

Perhaps Guzzi should go back to building Ambassador's and LeMans I's then. Both excellent designs that have stood the test of time.

 

[Casalambretta]

Perhaps Guzzi should go back to building Ambassador's and LeMans I's then. Both excellent designs that have stood the test of time.

Old and boring, yeah, that's a great strategy to keep the Marque alive, maybe they can get a booth with Royal Enfield at Eicma next year so they can share the buzz :roll:

AlexM

 

[SoCalDon]

I must be a relic. Except for the Clubman, all the new concepts are UGLY.

 

[WitchCityBallabio]

Perhaps Guzzi should go back to building Ambassador's and LeMans I's then. Both excellent designs that have stood the test of time.

Old and boring, yeah, that's a great strategy to keep the Marque alive, maybe they can get a booth with Royal Enfield at Eicma next year so they can share the buzz :roll:

AlexM

LOL. I was joking of course. I can't wait for that LM12 to hit the U.S. I hope they don't change it too much.

 

[GuzziMoto]

I don't think the Griso is "old and boring", nor the MGS-01. And if you want to appeal to the "20 somethings", do you really think it is just a matter of fancy new designs with more shiny bits? Are we trying to attract "20 somethings", or birds?

 

[RJVB]

Anything and anyone, as long as they're (much) more than 20 :ugeek:

 

[Mike.C]

Perhaps Guzzi should go back to building Ambassador's and LeMans I's then. Both excellent designs that have stood the test of time.

Fixed

Actually I think that the more new designs the better - as long as they are "good" designs. Like all things, one bad one will kill the goose and then we will be left with the gander and a gander with a bad reputation at that.

 

[RJVB]

You're being a bit pessimistic, Mike. What you say would be true for a small maker investing in some very expensive design exercise. Here, we have a small brand (small in terms of marketshare) that's part of what's probably Europe's largest 2RM maker. Not only can they probably afford a *design* mistake (as long as it isn't riddled with mechanical issues like the Stelvio *might* appear to be to some), they very likely also have both the means and the know-how to conduct a market acceptance evaluation before releasing any concept in the wild.

And believe me, there *is* acceptance. These concepts are very nicely controversial, as a good concept ought to be IMVHO.

 

[WitchCityBallabio]

I don't think the Griso is "old and boring", nor the MGS-01. And if you want to appeal to the "20 somethings", do you really think it is just a matter of fancy new designs with more shiny bits? Are we trying to attract "20 somethings", or birds?

I would say the new designs represent more than just "fancy new designs". The look to me to be completely new (updated) engineering. From the rumors, much lighter, which of course will translate into a machine that is a lot of fun to ride. We'll have to wait and see I guess.

IMO when you put the Griso next to these new designs, it does in fact look dated. With regards to the MGS01, I think they're closer to that but just missing the fairing.

 

[FrostBittenCanadian]

uummmm, Seems to me I've been looking at pictures of concept bikes ( and cars) for about 35 years now. Most of them are ridiculous and as ugly as sin and probably better than 95% never see the light of day. The design equivalent of wanking. But I guess if you don't exercise the muscle, it atrophies.
FBC

 

[GuzziMoto]

I don't think the Griso is "old and boring", nor the MGS-01. And if you want to appeal to the "20 somethings", do you really think it is just a matter of fancy new designs with more shiny bits? Are we trying to attract "20 somethings", or birds?

I would say the new designs represent more than just "fancy new designs". The look to me to be completely new (updated) engineering. From the rumors, much lighter, which of course will translate into a machine that is a lot of fun to ride. We'll have to wait and see I guess.

IMO when you put the Griso next to these new designs, it does in fact look dated. With regards to the MGS01, I think they're closer to that but just missing the fairing.

Uhmmm... They appear to be powered by the new 8 valve motor, which is not very light so the new bikes are likely in the same weight range as the current bikes. Same power to weight as well.
Put a Griso next to these and the Griso will look like a motorcycle and these new ones look like toys. The best comparison I can see is they are much like the goofy concept cars you see at the Japanese auto show. Styling execises that are very creative but lack substance and practicality.

 

[Casalambretta]

Perhaps Guzzi should go back to building Ambassador's and LeMans I's then. Both excellent designs that have stood the test of time.

Fixed

Actually I think that the more new designs the better - as long as they are "good" designs. Like all things, one bad one will kill the goose and then we will be left with the gander and a gander with a bad reputation at that.

Sorry Mike C :/



AlexM