New member and Griso owner in PA

[ett]

Hello everyone,

I've been lurking for a couple of weeks now. And I guess it's about time I introduce myself.

For the past three decades I've riding typical rice rockets.
And have been racing them as a club level amateur on and off for two decades.
Recently I crashed and totaled my high mileage (260,000) '00 gsxr750 thanks to a deer.
What motorcycle did I buy after getting off crutches ? A new Griso 8V !
This one:

I bought it 3 weeks ago and have already put over 2,000 miles on it.
I guess that's not bad considering it's mid Winter here and it's been below freezing nearly every morning when I ride to work.
It's a nice change to have a motorcycle with a real alternator that can handle both electric gloves AND full sleeve electric liner.
My GSXR went through a lot of stators just using an old Widder electric vest.

A Griso may not have the balls-to-wall performance of all the rice rockets I've been riding.
BUT I put a big grin on my face every time I throw my leg over the Griso. :mrgreen:
And it gathers compliments everywhere I go.

I'm looking forward to many miles on it.
I hope that switching from a GSXR to a Griso; that what I give up in performance I gain in durability, reliability, AND character.

--ET

 

[GuzziMoto]

Welcome.
Did you buy the Griso at Europa Macchina? They were selling some leftovers at deep discounts. They are good people.
If you got 260,000 miles out of a GSXR then I am not sure if you will be able to top that with anything, but I would hope so. If nothing else then I would venture that you will be more comfortable putting that kind of mileage on a Griso. But I would not have thought a GSXR would have lasted that long. Clearly the Suzuki engineers have some work to do. Or maybe that issue has already been resolved on the newer version.
Again, welcome. Maybe we will run into each other sometime. The wife and I go up to central Pa to visit her folks fairly often.

 

[draidt]

Welcome !

Was the Griso New on if so what year ? You did not waste anytime swapping the exhaust is that a Zard ?? Sounds like you do your own maintenance If so a VDTS available from Todd is almost a must and lest I start an oil thread the recommended oil is imperative 4T 10W60 full syn (Agip,Motorex,Redline Motuel) etc especially on the 8 Valve Guzzis.

My Griso SE

 

[ett]

Thanks for the welcomes !

It's a 2010 left over.
I bought it from Eurosports in Coopersburg, PA. I'm from Allentown, PA.
I've never had a dealer so close to my house.
That's the factory Termignoni exhaust.
That exhaust came with it as part of the left over deal.

Part of the reason why I got so many miles out of that GSXR is because I do as much maintenance myself as possible.
No offense to good, talented mechanics out there. BUT I've had too much damage done to my vehicles; motorcycle and cars; by mechanics.
Such as stripped bolts and screws, damaged wheel bearings, over-torqued oil filters, vandalized fuel injectors, Vise Grips left clamped to frame, etc ...

With this Griso I'm looking forward to easier maintenance.
I despised checking the valves on that GSXR.

Thanks to this forum for Guzzi Griso service manuals, pass codes, and other great tips !
Now if only it was possible to install map #68 without an Axone.
Oh well; getting that done today by the dealer.
I just hope that they remember to reset the TPS after installing the new map.

If they don't; I'll be buying a VDTS earlier than I expected.
(Along with a couple other goodies such as engine guards, work stand, etc ...)

--ET

 

[Bill Hagan]

Welcome.

Looks great, especially as it's one of the fast red models. Oh, I forget; that's redundant. :laugh:

Mine, bought last November. Only 500 miles. Yes, shame on me.



Bill

 

[ett]

I hope this is not signs of things to come.

Dealer attempted to install map #68.
The ECU is now dead.
Supposedly it is failing with an "ECU disconnect" error code.
Piaggio has agreed to replace the ECU under warrantee; since they are the ones who gave the dealer the access code.

So as it stands now; brand new Griso is dead after only ~2,000 miles.

--ET

 

[gstallons]

Things happen..............

 

[Penis Rotor]

I hope this is not signs of things to come.

Dealer attempted to install map #68.
The ECU is now dead.
Supposedly it is failing with an "ECU disconnect" error code.
Piaggio has agreed to replace the ECU under warrantee; since they are the ones who gave the dealer the access code.

So as it stands now; brand new Griso is dead after only ~2,000 miles.

--ET

My guess is they didn't allow the process to finish.

When you are remapping thev ECU it is imperative that you a.) make sure the bike and the tool are plugged into external power sources. b.) follow the instructions to the letter and allow the re-mapping process to complete before disconnecting the tool by either turning it or the bike off. The last thing that is reloaded is the ECU reboot data. If the process is interupted the ECU won't reboot.

Sounds to me like they didn't follow the prompts correctly or interupted the upload in some way. The upside to the situation is that the replacement ECU will probably have the GRS8V03 map in it whic it seems is, if anything, an improvement on the #68S map.

Pete

 

[jdelv]

I'm new here too. I rode my Griso about 60 miles before I had to store it. Terrible that you have ECU problems. I sure hope my '07 doesn't have ECU problems and I'm going to be proactive to prevent moisture intrusion on the unit itself.

I like riding in PA, mostly Western and Central due to my Western NY residence. Maybe I'll see you around...

Here's my intro thread...
https://www.guzzitech.com/component/jm ... /7694.html

 

[Penis Rotor]

Oh, and on the ECU disconnect thing? When the remapping process is started the disconnected plug appears on the dash. If they tried to fiddle with anything while it was reprogramming to see if they could get the symbol to disappear it will of interupted the re-flashand led to the failure.

Which tool were they using? Axone or Navigator?

Pete

 

[ett]

Oh, and on the ECU disconnect thing? When the remapping process is started the disconnected plug appears on the dash. If they tried to fiddle with anything while it was reprogramming to see if they could get the symbol to disappear it will of interupted the re-flashand led to the failure.

Which tool were they using? Axone or Navigator?

Pete

I don't know which tool they were using.
The sequence of events was this:

1) Wed 1/4/2012; Dealer called me to say they talked with the U.S. Piaggio rep who gave them the access code for the map #68. And that I could come in on Friday 1/6/2012 and they would install the map.

2) Friday 1/6/2012; I trailered the bike to the dealer.

3) In addition to installing the map; for comparison; I also asked that they do a dyno run before and after the map installation.

4) I also instructed them to reset the TPS after installing the map.
They said the new map should not bugger the TPS; but they would check.

5) They said the entire process will take about 1-1/2 hours. So I went out to run some errands.

6) On my way back to the dealer; my cell phone rang when I was less than 1 mile from the dealer.
I assumed it was the dealer calling me to tell me the bike was done.
Since I do not use cell phones while driving. I did not learn until I got to the dealer that
a) I was correct in that it was them calling me.
b) I was wrong about about why they were calling me.

7) At the dealer they gave me the bad news about the "ECU disconnect" error.
The owner walked me back to my bike; which was still sitting on the dyno.
And explained (and showed) me the error. He also said they tried re-installing the original map.
But no matter what they tried; they kept getting that error. And they had a call into the U.S. Piaggio rep.

8) I didn't get a complete look at everything. However I did see a portable battery and laptop hooked up to the bike.

9) While he was showing me the error. The mechanic came in and asked to see the owner in private.

10) When the owner came back. He told me the U.S. Piaggio rep had just called.
The rep said that map #68 will not work with a U.S. Griso.
And that since he gave the dealer the access code; he would replace the ECU under warrantee.

11) Dealer said it would take 5 business days for the new ECU to arrive.
Assuming they have one in the Atlanta, GA warehouse.

So now it's a waiting game.
Just in time for unusually warm and dry weather in January here on the east coast of the U.S.

--ET

 

[Bill Hagan]

Won't enter the tech debate, as I haven't a clue. Will only say in that regard that I understood that my 2010 G12, which I bought at Rose Farm Classics two months ago (and surely is a US Griso!), had the 68 map installed. Whatever is in it, it runs flawlessly, and significantly better in all ways than my Norge, Ballabio, and EV.

As for part availability, just count your blessing that this didn't occur on run up to August, when no parts move out of Italy ... and Mandellans apparently spend July talking about they will do in August, and September walking the factory floor telling stories about what they did!

Sorry to hear of your woes.

Bill

 

[Penis Rotor]

I don't know which tool they were using.
The sequence of events was this:

1) Wed 1/4/2012; Dealer called me to say they talked with the U.S. Piaggio rep who gave them the access code for the map #68. And that I could come in on Friday 1/6/2012 and they would install the map.

2) Friday 1/6/2012; I trailered the bike to the dealer.

3) In addition to installing the map; for comparison; I also asked that they do a dyno run before and after the map installation.

4) I also instructed them to reset the TPS after installing the map.
They said the new map should not bugger the TPS; but they would check.

Unfortunately this seems to indicate to me that they are groping in the dark somewhat. The TPS is physically set at one point. When it is *adjusted* what you are in fact doing is changing the manner that the ECU reads the baseline voltage and interprets it. Installing a new map changes the ECU parameters in a way that with SOME maps on SOME models the TPS value is interpreted as radically different and it has to be re-set. The GRS8V68S map is one of them.

5) They said the entire process will take about 1-1/2 hours. So I went out to run some errands.

Well at least they were being cautious. First time I used Axone to remap something it took me about 3/4 of an hour. Navigator is significantly slower but once you are familiar with the process it should take about 1/2 an hour max.

6) On my way back to the dealer; my cell phone rang when I was less than 1 mile from the dealer.
I assumed it was the dealer calling me to tell me the bike was done.
Since I do not use cell phones while driving. I did not learn until I got to the dealer that
a) I was correct in that it was them calling me.
b) I was wrong about about why they were calling me.

7) At the dealer they gave me the bad news about the "ECU disconnect" error.
The owner walked me back to my bike; which was still sitting on the dyno.
And explained (and showed) me the error. He also said they tried re-installing the original map.
But no matter what they tried; they kept getting that error. And they had a call into the U.S. Piaggio rep.

As I've said, when the re-mapping process is taking place the dash will show the 'ECU un-plugged' icon. Perhaps This spooked them and they turned off the ignition or otherwise interupted the upload? as I said. Do that and the reboot data won't of been re-loaded and its all over, red rover.

8) I didn't get a complete look at everything. However I did see a portable battery and laptop hooked up to the bike.

Axone is an ugly trapezoid box that plugs into the bike via a cable.

Navigator is a bluetooth device. It has a remote box that plugs into the bike and the computer operating it can be anywhere within a few meters radius of the machine.

Unless their laptop is not bluetooth equipped in which case the laptop can be connected to the remote box via a cable. The software running looks like this

If there was a laptop plugged directly into the bike I have no idea what they were trying to do but whatever it was it sounds wrong? Perhaps when they saw the disconnect icon they detatched the factory tool and tried to use another form of software to continue the task? Who knows??

9) While he was showing me the error. The mechanic came in and asked to see the owner in private.

10) When the owner came back. He told me the U.S. Piaggio rep had just called.
The rep said that map #68 will not work with a U.S. Griso.
And that since he gave the dealer the access code; he would replace the ECU under warrantee.

Sorry. This is bullshit. I have installed the #68 map on several US Grisos including my own '08 model. I also have Griso owning pals who have had the map uploaded to their bikes. Recently I have had a few late 2010 build models through that have from the factory had the GRS8V-03 map. These ECU's will NOT take the 68S map but it is simply a case of when you enter the 'Reprogramming' section of Navigator the tool will tell you that the ECU has. "Been updated or no upgrades are currently available". Once you get that message thats it. You can go no further and ther are no more ptions. You can't *do* anything that will affect the mapping in any way. You certainly can't destroy the ECU. Your only option is to retreat out of the menu.

11) Dealer said it would take 5 business days for the new ECU to arrive.
Assuming they have one in the Atlanta, GA warehouse.

So now it's a waiting game.
Just in time for unusually warm and dry weather in January here on the east coast of the U.S.

--ET

As previously mentioned it MAY be that the ECU has fried itself and this is entirely independent of the map upload attempt. Dan Raidt had his SE do this due to poor attatchment of the earth cable from the ECU. That resulted in the ECU getting voltage spiked and the 'ECU disconnect' Icon on the dash. I've seen this on several 5AM equipped bikes so it is the way you are told the ECU is cactus. In this case though my feeling is that either the programming was interupted or it was not undertaken properly. It should also be remembered that reprogramming is a one-way street. You cannot re-install a pevious map. The fact that you were told that they tried to indicates that they don't know the tooling. The 'Old' map can't be re-installed because it doesn't appear as an option! It's that simple!

I'm sorry you're experiencing such an embuggerance but as I said, the new ECU should contain the '03 map which is a happy thing and ECU's with this in won't take the earlier 68S map. If though it comes with the )1 or 02 map I would still recommend that you get it upgraded, (By someone with more experience!) to the #68 map although oddly the '03 map doesn't sem to be an optionas an upgrade gor earlier ECU's. I have no idea why??? I'd like to try it in my bike!

Pete

 

[ett]

Well it's exactly 1 week later. Still no ECU.
I'm really getting worried as to if I made a big mistake buying a Moto Guzzi.
There have been too many small incorrect statements by this dealer that can now be interrupted as lies and incompetence.

1) When I paid for the motorcycle. They told me that the Termi exhaust costs so much because it comes with a new ECU specifically designed for this exhaust.

2) When I first picked up the motorcycle. The parts kid let it slip out that they had him searching all over the shop for the box the Termi exhaust came in. Because there is suppose to be an ECU. The kid said as it turns out; there was no ECU. They only had to install a new map.

3) They told me the break-in period was just like any other motorcycle; 600 miles. But the manual clearly states 1500 km; aka 932 miles.

4) When I dropped off the motorcycle for it's first service. I asked them about this map #68. They said:

"Never heard of this map. But it seemed to be an option for download. I could not download the map cause we did not have the pass code. Be we can contact Piaggio & see what they say about this."

5) Last Friday when they first broke the ECU; they said it would take 3 to 5 days to get a replacement ECU assuming one is in stock in the Atlanta warehouse.

6) They were suppose to be installing map #68 because they had spoken to the U.S. rep about it.
After they broke the ECU; they are claiming map #68 is not compatible with U.S. Grisos.
BUT that is one of the items they were suppose to have asked the U.S. rep !

7) I called them this past Wed asking for an update. They said they placed the order this past Monday.
And they never even bothered to check if the part was actually available !
I had to demand that while I was on the phone; that they check if the ECU is available and not on back-order.

Sheesh. You would think that if you break a customer's motorcycle. You would at least be competent enough to:
a) Order the part asap; not 1-1/2 business days later.
b) Pay for expedited shipping.
c) Verify the part is available and not on back-order.
d) Call the customer to let them know the status of the order.

I really do not trust this dealer at all.
In the time frame of only 1 month; they've lost a potential long term repeat customer.
(Prior to this motorcycle purchase. For the past 30 years I had bought all my motorcycles from the same Suzuki dealer.)
And they may have also cost Moto Guzzi a potential long term repeat customer.

I've tried calling the next closest Guzzi dealer. But they can not even answer their phone correctly.
Hint to retailers: You do not answer the phone with only "Hello".
You answer the phone by stating your business name and identifying yourself.

All the other Guzzi dealers are ~100 miles away.

Starting to regret buying a Guzzi;
--ET

 

[GTM®]

ET, sorry for the troubles. If you want to expedite things, have them send me the ECU and I'll see if I can revive it. Send me an e-mail for details; Todd at GuzziTech.com

p.s. I also have one GT-Rx Performance ECU re-flash (core) sitting on my shelf ready to ship.

 

[draidt]

ET, sorry for the troubles. If you want to expedite things, have them send me the ECU and I'll see if I can revive it. Send me an e-mail for details; Todd at GuzziTech.com

p.s. I also have one GT-Rx Performance ECU re-flash (core) sitting on my shelf ready to ship.

If at all possible take Todd up on his offer, Unfortunate that you have to endure this, I am the Dan Raidt that Pete speaks of with the fried ECU. Thanks to a great dealer ( They are out there my friend) who I DID NOT buy the bike from, Moto Nexus in North Carolina who actually picked the bike up for me at the breakdown location, I was on the road in a week with a brand new ECU. It had the 03 map in it. I sent the ECU out to Todd and he did his magic and flashed it to the 068 Map. The Griso once you get through, this will make you forget your feelings of regret of buying it.

 

[GuzziMoto]

I agree with the Todd flashed ECU. He has done that for many and I for one and very happy with what he has done.
I know it seems silly to be paying for something that the factory/dealer should take care of but Todd can make your ECU better then it came out of the factory. By the way, I am not aware of there being a special flash for the Termi pipe either. And if there was then putting the 68 map in it would defeat that.
But you do need a competent dealer or the software to reset the TPS after flashing.
I have had decent experiences with Europa Macchina on the south side of Harrisburg. But they only do Guzzi for fun. Their real bread and butter business is vintage Porsche.
Finding a dealer you trust is important, regardless of the brand. An incompetent dealer could screw up any ownership experience.
I hope you have better luck with a better dealer. When properly set up a Guzzi can be a great bike.

 

[ett]

ET, sorry for the troubles. If you want to expedite things, have them send me the ECU and I'll see if I can revive it. Send me an e-mail for details; Todd at GuzziTech.com

p.s. I also have one GT-Rx Performance ECU re-flash (core) sitting on my shelf ready to ship.

Thanks.
Since the Griso is under warranty.
I'll give the dealer next week to resolve this issue.
After which; a letter to Moto Guzzi / Piaggio seems to be appropriate.

 

[GTM®]

Thanks. Since the Griso is under warranty. I'll give the dealer next week to resolve this issue.
After which; a letter to Moto Guzzi / Piaggio seems to be appropriate.

Just trying to help you out. If they want to send it to me to try and revive it, there's no charge for (stock mapping uploads) outside of shipping to get you going.
For complaints, just pick up the phone and call Moto Guzzi Customer Care, letter not needed.

CUSTOMER CARE
Customer Care: CustomerCare@piaggiogroupamericas.com
Free Number: 1.877.696.6864
Local (NY) Number: 1.212.380.4433

 

[ett]

Well today I FINALLY got my Griso back.
The new ECU arrived Wed 1/18/2012.
It took 7 business days for it to be sent from the warehouse in Atlanta, GA to Coopersburg, PA.
Should I always expect such pathetic shipping for all in stock Guzzi parts ?

Although I got the Griso back and it ran correctly.
All is not well.

After taking it for a ride today.
I did my usual Winter routine of parking it in the garage and hooking up the Battery Tender.
After which I went out to the movies.
BUT it's 4 hrs later.
And the Battery Tender's green light is still flashing; indicating that the battery is NOT fully charged !
WTF ?!
Before the dealer touched my Griso.
After a ride; the Battery Tender's lights would go to a steady green in less than 1 minute.

It's crap like this is why I always try to do all my own vehicle work.
Mechanics always seem to break one thing for each one they fix.

What could they have broken in the process of attempting to upgrade the map or installing the new ECU ?

--ET