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New smallblock motor?

Discussion in 'V7/V85/V9 Chat & Tech' started by Holt, Nov 4, 2011.

  1. RJVB

    RJVB GT Reference

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    It seems I found a few more details about the new engine block, apparently published for the renewed Nevada but undoubtedly valid for all V7 models. To summarise:

    - 70% redesigned/new parts
    - Y-formed throttle body, 39mm diam.splitting into 2 36mm intakes with a 38mm valve controlled by a MIU3G Magneti Marelli
    - 2 O2 sensors allowing a per-cylinder control of the air/fuel mixture, lower consumption and emissions
    - redesigned combustion chambers to adapt to the new intakes and reduce internal turbulence
    - new 10mm plugs in a central position
    - higher compression (10.2:1 up from 9.2:1)
    - new segments to reduce oil consumption
    - new cooling fins for better cooling
    - new air box lapsus here - is this the correct translation?!
    - increased power from 3500rpm upwards
    - higher redline
    - 51hp @ 6200rpm, 58Nm @ 5000rpm

    apart from the engine, I see that the gearbox is supposed to be smoother through an improve shift system
     
  2. Greyo

    Greyo Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Gee, about time they did something about that issue!!

    Two years ago I bought a V7 Classic (brand new) and noticed right from the beginning that it was burning an inordinate (for me, at least) amount of motor oil (about 250 ml every 500 miles). I was told "Don't worry, it'll get resolved after the piston rings set in"... 18,000 miles later, it was still burning the same amount of oil, and the official reply from Guzzi was that, as far as they are concerned, that level of oil consumption is within the normal range for that engine... Gee, thanks... I wish they had told me that BEFORE I bought the bike - had I known I was buying one with what practically amounted to a two-stroke engine on it, I would have demanded much more horsepower out of it!
     
  3. sign216

    sign216 High Miler

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    My V7C use oil too. A little less than 250 ml / 500 miles, but close to it. I believe the standard in the motorcycle industry is 1 liter / 1,000 miles if you can believe that!
     
  4. Brian UK

    Brian UK GT Reference

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    No mention of 4 valves per head, but then, how do they get a central plug with 2 valves?
    And also, does the statement
    redesigned combustion chambers to adapt to the new intakes and reduce internal turbulence still sound like Heron heads or have they redesigned the piston crown?
     
  5. sign216

    sign216 High Miler

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    Brian, it is Heron heads. I like the low-mid range torque the Herons are good for, but you redline racers will want hemis, eh?

    Joe
     
  6. Paxo

    Paxo Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Can't say I've had any problems with oil consumption on my V7 since the first leaky engine was replaced. Haven't had to top it up between oil changes at all. My two penny worth regarding head design is, I don't care just so long as I don't have to rev the nuts off it, which is how you get power from a four valve engine. Two big valves and plenty of bottom end and mid range is fine for me. If I wanted more I could have bought any four across the frame 600 that would put out more than three time the power of the V7, and then joined the lads at the pub boasting how they could hit 180 if they really wanted to.
     
  7. Penderic

    Penderic Tuned and Synch'ed

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    There might be a possibility that you are putting in a little too much oil in the crankcase.

    The oil fill mark on the dip stick confuses many owners. I refilled once and went over the line on the dipstick by about 3/8" one time. For a about a week I found a little bit of clean oil dripping out of one of the breather tubes beneath the bike.

    I ran the bike untill the oil drip stopped and then the indicated oil level on the dipstick matched the line. I was surprised because I thought it was the low mark at first.

    Next oil change: measure out the recommended amount of oil to change, refill with that amount and then make sure the indicated oil level on the oil dipstick matches the mark. Remark the stick if not.

    The trannsmission oil level is also tricky.... use the FULL amount recommended (1 litre) and go slow, untill it is all in! Keep your fifth gear happy!
     
  8. Greyo

    Greyo Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Good point, but it does not apply in my case; I was aware of the "self-leveling" tendency of Guzzi engines and I knew where the correct oil level for the 750 engine was, so I never overfilled it (and never had any discharge from the breather tubes).

    For the record, another alternative explanation Guzzi reps tried to sell to me was that my riding style may be too much on the "gentle" side (i.e., not using enough of the revving range of the engine both upshifting and downshifting), thus preventing the piston rings from getting seated properly. That might be a plausible explanation for some guy whose riding experience does not extend beyond riding his Vespa around the block to the nearest Starbucks to get his daily latte; in my case, after 30+ years of riding all sorts of bikes all over Europe and North America, I think I can safely dismiss it as a likely explanation.

    To me, the very fact that Guzzi is now officially "boasting" that the new small-block engine has "New piston rings to reduce oil consumption" is tantamount to a confession that the problem with the current small-block is real and that they are well aware of it.
     
  9. sandy

    sandy Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    My V7 has used a negligable amount of oil since I bought it, (from new)
    I last topped it up at 3,000 miles after it's first service with about a tea cup full.
    It's coming up for it's next service at just under 5,000 miles and the level doesn't seem to have dropped.
    A lot of problems with Guzzi's (according to an experienced mechanic I spoke too), is that a lot of owners think they know better that the factory when it comes to the grade of oil to use.
     
  10. JAS

    JAS Tuned and Synch'ed

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    Maybe your "experienced mechanic" should look at the history of Moto Guzzi small blocks and some of the engineering decisions Guzzi made (see older small block issueshttp://guzzista.wetpaint.com/page/Older+Small+Block+Issues?) during the 80s and 90s and then tell me how knowledgable the factory is..... I would be more likley to follow a person experienced in maintaining Moto Guzzis than anything the factory says.
     
  11. sandy

    sandy Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    The link you provided was very interesting, and I read it thoroughly, but immediately I spotted a piece of information given by your "expert" that contradicts everything else I've been told.
    I have been advised that a sump spacer is a more or less essential modification for any small block.
    I've heard this from a few experts, including people on this very forum but yet in the link you provided the author say's

    "There are after market spacers that allow an additional 1 litre of oil. Neither of my bikes have one and I have no intention of getting one. The spacers I have seen have not been finned. They just have a smooth machined finish so this wouldn't increase cooling area significantly. Even if there is extra oil, without an effective surface area to help transfer heat then I can't see it being a significant advantage".


    That fly's in the face of every other opinion I've heard.
    See my point and how confusing this all becomes to newbies to the marque.
    So which "person experienced in maintaining Moto Guzzi's" am I supposed to believe.
    :shock:

    If I started a "which oil to use" thread, how many different answers do you think I would get ?
    I'm prepared to bet there would be quite a few people with totally contradictory opinions.

    As footnote, let me tell you about a car experience I had.
    I owned a Toyota with a 1.8 VVTI engine, which I later found out was prone to catastrophic engine failure at about 50,000 miles.
    There is loads on the internet about it.
    One day I got talking to an experienced retired Toyota mechanic who remembered the issue well, and told me that these engines are very oil sensitive.
    I can't remember the grade of oil recommended by Toyota but it was a thin oil.
    What was happening was that during the warranty period, the correct oil was being used as the cars were being dealer serviced but after that, when it was being either home serviced, or going to Joe Bloggs garage, any old 10/40 was being used, and that was causing huge problems when the cars were driven hard.
    These engines also burn quite a bit of oil, and many owners were allowing them to run nearly dry.
    These are things the self appointed internet experts will never admit too because it takes the onus off the manufacturer and onto the user, which is not good PR for any internet forum.

    I guess we can only use our own experiences as a guide, and my V7 does not use oil, so I guess I must be doing something right.
     
  12. RJVB

    RJVB GT Reference

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    I guess you cannot go wrong with those who are members here (John, Pete, ...) but in the end you'll probably want someone who can actually see your bike rather than attempt diagnosis over the internet...!
     
  13. Paxo

    Paxo Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Yes, yes, yes...all very interesting (No not really). Instead of all this theoretical stuff about who's right and who's advice to believe, just ride the bloody things, check the oil and if it needs it put some in. That's how it works in the real world for those who ride the bikes and don't just talk about them. If you believed all the crap that's written about any make of bike on any forum you'd think the things had only just been invented, and had so many faults they couldn't possibly get you to the end of your street before they exploded. Stop picking pointless arguments over nothing and enjoy your bikes cos life is too friggin short for all this crap!
     
  14. john zibell

    john zibell Moderator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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    Well said, I agree 100%
     
  15. sandy

    sandy Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Ditto the above
     
  16. Mi_ka

    Mi_ka High Miler

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    +1
    My Honda NX650 was consuming oil so fast I almost didn't even bother for oil changes - just added and added and flogged it around.
     
  17. Greyo

    Greyo Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    The fact that your V7 doesn't have an excessive oil consumption problem, or that mine did, doesn't really prove anything, as one can always find a single-case example that would fit one's theory.

    What really matters is whether or not a majority of cases show the same problem. Obviously, Moto Guzzi itself is in the best position to assess this, and the fact that they are now stating that the new small-block engine has new piston rings "to reduce oil consumption" clearly suggests that they know that excessive oil consumption is indeed a problem with the current engine... after all, you wouldn't expect a company to go out of their way to fix a problem that doesn't really exist, would you?
     
  18. Paxo

    Paxo Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    O f f sake!
     
  19. Mi_ka

    Mi_ka High Miler

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    Carefull! This way you are throwing away the last 20 years of evolution of Japanese crotch rockets!
    Almost actual dialog between journalists and the various chief engineers:
    -"Why did you completely redesigned your last years problem free stellar RR at points that no eye can see the differences?"
    -"Because its better!"

    By the way, what break-in policy did you go through? Smooth and gently?
    Maybe the Mandello guys left the same 30 year old piston-ring machine cut the rings while they have modern cylinder manufacturing machines produce ultra fine cylinders that never break in the crude rings of past technology. :dry:
    Now, maybe the ring machine broke down at last and they finally bought a new one that matches the cylinder fineness... :silly:
     
  20. Greyo

    Greyo Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Hey, chill off, dude... after all, it's Friday... go have a beer :cheer:
     

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