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New V9 Roamer England

Discussion in 'V7/V85/V9 Chat & Tech' started by gasgas, Dec 29, 2018.

  1. gasgas

    gasgas Tuned and Synch'ed

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    I have just bought a 2018 (I think!) new white V9 Roamer - well it is new in the sense it had 4 miles on the clock when I wheeled it out of the showroom. I got it as a pre-reg deal, at £6000 which I think is about £2700 off list. This is the time of year to buy,I thought - don't wait for the prices to soar in the spring!
    My reason for coming and posting before having photos is my experience of test riding this model and a V7 III before I bought it. I had a Breva a few years ago - pic in my avatar - and the foot pegs were too high, I got bad hip pain. A couple of years ago I visited a Guzzi dealer and tried a new model and the dealer told me that the pegs had been lowered by MG because lots of people had complained about this issue. However the prices of the new models put me off - even a couple of years ago a V7 was well over £8000.
    So just before Christmas I went to a dealer that was advertising these V7 IIIs and V9s at serious discounts. I got on the V7 demonstrator and rode off for a test and it coughed and spluttered terribly on low throttle settings. It was awful and I wanted to know the reason - surely people wouldn't buy something that behaved like this? It was quite lovely at normal road speeds but I couldn't imagine riding through town traffic on it.
    I returned to the dealer and tried the V9 demonstrator. This was totally different, it behaved flawlessly. Moreover it was exactly £1000 less cost than the V7, which I find strange, but there you are. So I bought one, and went to collect it on December 27th.
    I got on it in the dealers car park and drove onto the public road. Cough splutter it went. I got to the nearby T junction and turned on to the main road. Then all hell broke loose, it was coughing, spluttering, not running at all well. It started to only fire on one cylinder, and then I was convinced it was going to grind to a halt. I tried all throttle openings and it just wouldn't go. So I thought oh dear (or thoughts to that effect) and pulled over to the side. I turned around and coughed, spluttered and banged my way back towards the dealer. Then all of a sudden it burst into life and worked properly.
    I thought to myself that when I get back to the dealer, they will come out, ride it up the road and it will run perfectly and I will look like a stupid idiot. So I turned round once again towards home.
    Home is about 65 miles, and before I got out of the dealers town I had to filter a couple of miles through stationary traffic on a dual carriageway. This of course was the exact conditions that would cause the rough running, but it went fine. In first gear I was opening and closing the throttle a touch, slipping the clutch, light pressure on the rear brake, and it went perfectly well. Once I was on the open road, a country road with 60 speed limits it was perfect. I went through villages, slowing appropriately and got home in one piece.

    My conclusion is that I don't know why, but it seemed to me that a brand new, never run V9 didn't run properly just because it was new. Seems to me that the dealer could not have run it up the road to test it, they must have just put petrol (that's what we have in the UK) in the tank, a number plate on the back, and sold it to me. They are a big dealer by the way, selling lots of makes, the salesman told me they sell between 21 and 25 bikes a week, steadily throughout the year.
    I am hoping the VIN will confirm it is a 2018 bike - I think I heard the salesman mutter 2017 during the purchase process. I think the VIN includes the year somewhere doesn't it? Anyhow it's not very important, it is still a new bike.
    I fitted heated grips today and now I am looking for a rear carrier and a fly screen. The OEM prices are a figment of a fairy tale writer's imagination so I'm not going there. Also the dealer's servicing prices are a bit of a surprise - they want £276 for a service. The garage I got my car from does a 2 year service plan for cars over 3 years old, of £237 for two years servicing plus 2 years MOT tests (that's the roadworthiness test we have here). That is what I call value for money, not £276 for one motorbike service where you don't have to remove fairings to get at the plugs and head valves.
    Sorry for the ramble - does anyone have a reason for the terrible rough running in the first mile with the engine cold of course? I took it out today, from cold, and it ran just fine.
     
  2. gasgas

    gasgas Tuned and Synch'ed

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    I live in England, have just bought a new Roamer V9 in the January sales. I have tried the 'just touch the start button and it will continue to turn till the engine starts' but it does not do that, it only turns the engine while the button is held down. I have tried to pursue this rewiring. I am a competent vehicle electrician and if I have this flaky starter system on my V9 I would like to fix it. If it fails to start while it is a reasonably young age, that would be something to persuade me to get rid of the bike. I cannot abide unreliable vehicles.
    I looked at my wiring. I cannot find the starter solenoid relay, assuming there is one. The solenoid has a black wire which feeds into a black plastic sheath just a bit larger than the wire. This disappears into a much larger wiring loom underneath the back end of the petrol tank. I think this fat wiring loom goes towards the front of the machine. I see the ECU there, and the ABS pump.
    I have 6 fuses in a block immediately above the battery. Reading from the rear of the bike, they are 15, 15, 15, 5, 5, 5, 30Amps. I have removed them all and put a thin coat of copper grease on each terminal (then replaced them, obviously!)
    So dear friends, can you tell me what I have got? Do I have a starter relay and if so would it be under the tank? If I can find it I will happily wire an additional 12v feed to it directly from the battery.

    While on the subject, just be thankful you don't have a Triumph Tiger 800. I had one and at first I thought the starter button was faulty. I was training for the Advanced Rider exam which requires you to do full lock circles and figures of eight, slower than walking speed. In the process I sometimes stalled the engine. It would not restart. After investigation I found out that the starter button does not send 12v to the starter motor, it sends a signal to the ECU. After a cup of tea and a biscuit, the ECU obligingly sends 12v to the starter solenoid. That is the theory. In practice, if you stall the engine, you have to hold down the starter button for a full two seconds before the ECU has had its refreshments and sends the 12v. This apparently is deliberately designed into the electronics by some moron with manslaughter tendencies. Since I do not want the last thing I see before I knock on the Pearly Gates to be an HGV truck bearing down on me because I cannot start my bike, I immediately got rid of the awful thing. I will never own a Triumph again if that is the sort of thing they design into their machines.
     
  3. vagrant

    vagrant Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    There some relays up under the back of the v7 III tank.not sure which. I think they did away with the I'll keep trying to start without your thumb system a while back. Just go ride it.
     
  4. kiwi dave

    kiwi dave GT Reference

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    With a new bike comes a warranty. Why would you not use it?
     
  5. gasgas

    gasgas Tuned and Synch'ed

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    There's nothing wrong with the bike dave, but having read this thread, if there is potential trouble ahead with the starting system I would fix it before it becomes a problem. By the way, yesterday, one week after I bought it, I checked the tyre pressures and they were both well down. The rear was down by 1 Bar and the front down by just under 1 Bar. I've had this before where you buy a new bike and the dealer can't be bothered to check the tyre pressures before giving it to you. If they ask for an appraisal some time soon I will tell them what I think. Anyway I won't be going back there because they are 70 miles away - and they want £270 for a service! They've got to be joking! £270 and they can't / won't even pump the tyres up?. The reason for getting it from them was that it was so cheap. Therte's an independent service chap near where I live, that is where it will be going for services. (I have checked the oil by the way, that is OK)
    . . . . .actually I will check that my tyre inflator gauge is reasonably accurate before giving them a bad review . . . I'll compare it with some other gauges.
     
  6. GT-Rx®

    GT-Rx® Administrator Staff Member

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    None of them do this, all the way back to the 2013 V7 using the same ECU and electrical system (nor any of the previous versions back to the Breva/Nevada.) Only a few of the CARC big blocks did, and that has been abandoned (likely for good reason).

    The erratic running points to improper Pre Delivery Inspection (PDI) and set up. Seems typical from the big box Stores with cheap prices. I would have someone knowledgeable with modern Guzzis give it a proper PDI. There’s a handful of known new bike issues you’ll find here on the Forum.
    I can make them run a ton better using my products in the Store linked above.

    If you don’t want to spend money on improvements, and after it is properly set up and run in (~10k miles), I’d suggest give it time through the warmer months to see if you love it. If not, sell and ride another brand.
    Best to you in the New Year.
     
    Trout likes this.
  7. gasgas

    gasgas Tuned and Synch'ed

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    Thanks GT for the advice. I do love it and I won't be getting another brand, I have had just about all of them and I could list reasons why I won't have about ten makes but I won't bore you with them.
    I checked the tyre pressures against four other gauges and the other four all agree with each other, and disagree with the original one I tried. That one is now in the bin and I have reset the pressures to those agreed by all four of the 'working properly' ones so I won't be writing any bad reviews. Today I rode 25 miles to my son in law's house in the 5 degree C temperature with the heated grips and it was fine. He loved the look of it and might get one.
    Now to confess my complete ignorance and ask what CARC is? I have done a search here, and in Google and I am none the wiser. So I must take a deep breath, gulp and ask, very timidly, what is CARC?
     
  8. kiwi dave

    kiwi dave GT Reference

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    Dunno what the situation is in the UK, but in New Zealand if you don't get your servicing done by a registered dealer, then the warranty is null and void. Yes, they have you by the curlies.

    I know this doesn't apply to the USA, and I think it should be world wide, but it's the importers that makes the rules and process the warranty claims.
     
  9. gasgas

    gasgas Tuned and Synch'ed

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    There was a test case in the courts in the UK some years ago and the law now says that so long as the manufacturers parts are used, or even equivalent manufacturers parts are used and the servicing is done at the manufacturer's specified time / mileage intervals then the manufacturer has to honour the warranty. I recall that many years ago when rubber overhead cam drive belts were introduced, a Citroen owner whose belt snapped resulting in a new engine took Citroen to court because they wanted to charge him for the new engine. He had had the car serviced at the correct intervals at a Citroen dealer and argued that if the belt needed changing then it should form part of the servicing routine. Citroen had not included the belt in the servicing. The solicitor won his case, and Citroen and all other manufacturers promptly put 60,000 mile limits on the cam belt life.

    In my case with the V9 servicing there are two reasonably close MG dealers and I will go to one of them. One, my favourite, is run by two old chaps with grey hair. The showroom has wooden floorboards and a couple of 100W bulbs in shades hanging from the ceiling. They also specialise in maintaining and restoring Reliant Scimitars. They know what 15 thou and 25 thou are for, and know how to make an engine run without using computers.
     
  10. GT-Rx®

    GT-Rx® Administrator Staff Member

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    Very good on all of the rest. Hope you stick with it... they are very rewarding when you do, as you likely know.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=guzzi+carc&oq=guzzi+carc
     
    gasgas likes this.
  11. GT-Rx®

    GT-Rx® Administrator Staff Member

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    Sounds like good guys to know, but the downside to modern times is that computers are required for most new bikes, Guzzis included.
     
  12. kiwi dave

    kiwi dave GT Reference

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    FYI, I identified the relays from the wiring diagram. The # numbers refer to the wiring diagram.

    RELAY IDENTIFICATION

    UNDER TANK, counting from front

    1. LIGHT LOGIC RELAY (#5)
    1 purple/yellow
    2 orange
    3 green/white
    5 orange

    2. INJECTION LOAD RELAY (#28)
    1 grey/blue
    2 green/red
    3 red/brown
    5 red/white

    3. START UP RELAY (#6)
    1 blue/yellow
    2 green/red
    3 purple
    5 green/red
     
    gasgas likes this.
  13. GT-Rx®

    GT-Rx® Administrator Staff Member

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    The V7 III/V9 system spins the starter as long as you hold the start button, but it will shut the starter off at a timed point, causing you to have to let go and push again. It does NOT have the touch and let go while the starter spins like the older big block CARC bikes. That is what I read into his original post.
    My last post on the subject here.
     
  14. nel

    nel Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Congrats on your purchase at a good price. I keep thinkin of changing my breva and tested a new Triumph Speedmaster. What shocked me was the rusty front disc and chain the saleman said it was because the less than a thou demo bike gets wet during the day. It's seems Triumph don't honour corrosion claims on made in Far East once you wheel it out the door. Be assured if you Roamer gets to 100K UK miles it will still be largely corrosion free. Check out the UK lot guzziriders.org
     
    gasgas likes this.
  15. gasgas

    gasgas Tuned and Synch'ed

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    Thanks nel, that's reassuring. I must say I am extremely pleased with the finish on the Guzzi. Lots of machined billet aluminium, nice chrome, excellent paintwork, and things such as the mudguards are made of metal where other makes use plastic. I have posted elsewhere why I will never have a Triumph again. When I wrote to the MD of the dealer I bought it from to tell him why, he phoned me saying he didn't realise what I had said, he investigated and found it was true. He said he would be reconsidering if he wants to be a Triumph dealer any more.
     
    Bill Hagan likes this.
  16. vagrant

    vagrant Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    rust on the rotor just means there's iron in it. it should stop better that the ones that don't rust. on the chain means they are too cheap to lube it. driveshafts rule!
     
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  17. grame

    grame Just got it firing!

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    I bought a red year-old Roamer from the same place you got yours. I ran if for a year before part-exchanging it for a beand-new black V7iii Stone. I liked the Roamer very much - it was super-reliable, a joy to ride (if a little wibbly over white lines) and very pretty to look at.
    I heard they got a job lot of unsold difficult-to-shift white Roamers from Guzzi - hence the insanely low price. It's a helluva lot of bike for the money and strange why it failed to take off. I do mainly urban riding and so preferred the roadbike aesthetic of the V7 - the fact the iii had the same sort of engine as the V9 was the clincher for me.
     
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  18. Bill Hagan

    Bill Hagan GT Reference GT Famiglia

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    Welcome to the "interesting" world of Moto Guzzi ownership. :giggle:

    Seriously, I wouldn't live in any other. Besides, what I once knew about ICE would have fit into a teacup -- I used to say "thimble," but you are a Brit, so teacup seemed more fitting ;) -- I can now wrench to the point I only have a few parts left over when done. :rofl:

    Best wishes from the top of Virginia for miles of smiles ahead.

    Bill
     
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  19. gasgas

    gasgas Tuned and Synch'ed

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    I love that, only having a few parts left over when done. The mark of a professional.
    It's curious how the things you fix and have a few parts left over always seem to work properly. In that case why did they fit those parts in the first place?
    Although the V9 is a bit bigger and heavier than the 7, I need to have it because of the seat / footpeg distance and geometry are sufficiently better that my hip doesn't hurt. That is the main reason for choosing it. I do think though, that if the 7 had been £1000 cheaper than the 9 instead of the other way round, I would have got the 7 and modified the geometry. You can have the seat re-foamed to raise it 2 or 3 inches, and you can get a scrambler exhaust which would enable the footpegs to be lowered. However that would absorb the £1000 so perhaps not!
    Best news is that I have just discovered a new local motorbike service workshop, just up the road. It's a small unit on an industrial estate and for servicing he is charging less than a half of what the dealer I got it from wants.
     
  20. john zibell

    john zibell Moderator Staff Member GT Famiglia

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    But do they have the knowledge and software to work on your bike?
     

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