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Newer Small Block for 2015?

Discussion in 'V7/V85/V9 Chat & Tech' started by GT-Rx®, Jan 28, 2014.

  1. Kev M

    Kev M Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    OK, I'm at my desktop finally - MCN got 444# for the racer.

    As for your Jackal you must have just carved off crap and thrown it away because my records are showing it was a claimed 542 dry/stock and more like 572 wet.

    Other wet weights in my spec chart for comparison include the Black Eagle at 589# and Breva 1100 562#, so even 524# might be optimistic for a Bellagio, but is could be right (or close) as I have a dry of 494# for it (but no wet).
     
  2. Instg8r

    Instg8r Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    I like the specs on the Bellagio, but I think the hp specs could be better, but torque is nice. A 850 (877 cc) is rated at 71hp @ 7600 rpm and 48 ft lbs @7000 rpm

    the Bellagio 935cc is rated at 75hp@ 7200rpm and 57 ft lbs @ 6700 rpm according to motorcyclespecs.co.za

    it has a decent bump in torque and power is being achieved at a lower rpm. I wonder how much is left on the table for hp and rpm. yes I know its a guzzi bla bla torque bla bla low rpm bla bla real world bla bla....I like it all...torque, HP, and rpm...lol
     
  3. Instg8r

    Instg8r Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    oh one thing I'd like on the new small block is the ability to use a power commander
     
  4. Moto Fugazzi

    Moto Fugazzi Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    An 8V 850 small block would be ideal. A V8 8V, if you will. Might be a good platform for a new LeMans.
    Ken
     
  5. roadscum

    roadscum Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    I'd like to see a design with proper fueling/engine management so that there is no need for a PC or any other tuning tricks! :mrgreen:

    Paul
     
  6. Kev M

    Kev M Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Defining "need" is the question.

    I've kept most bikes I've owned stock with regards to the state of tune.

    Currently two of the four are, and I'd argue a third might as well be (with just slightly modified mufflers and 02 manipulators).

    Anyway, most of my stock bikes have run just fine. Only one actually "needed" tuning.
     
  7. roadscum

    roadscum Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Aaaaah, there's the rub, what is the meaning of "needed tuning"? :lol:

    Paul
     
  8. GT-Rx®

    GT-Rx® Administrator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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    Paul, every manufacturer is forced to deal with emission requirements that make this more and more impossible each year. While they get better at engineering around it, it will only get worse. So while you will likely be able to ride/run the bike as it arrives on the showroom floor, you will only be able to thoroughly enjoy it once the fueling has been sorted.
     
  9. Kev M

    Kev M Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    It was literally "needed" because it would not run under load without pinging.

    Octane, maintenance, etc. made no difference.
     
  10. roadscum

    roadscum Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    That may be how you define "needed" but others may have a different threshold. Just say'n.

    Paul
     
  11. Kev M

    Kev M Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Oh lord, it's just the English language, it's not that difficult. :roll: :p

    No, that's NEEDED because without it there would be damage.

    What you refer to is WANT. ;)
     
  12. GT-Rx®

    GT-Rx® Administrator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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    This thread is straying off topic, but that said (and to verify for Kev), MOST of the new bikes are far too aggressively timed IMO, and based on the garbage fuel we have compared to Europe, it amplifies the problem. Guzzi doesn't offer a N.A. spec map (nor anything beyond the map they build in Italy), so either octane booster or just revising the fuel/timing maps are the best solution, for all models based on my data.
     
  13. Kev M

    Kev M Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    FWIW the bike in question, my B11, eventually wouldn't run without pinging even with non-ethanol fuel, or even with premium PLUS a bottle of octane booster.

    You're the only one who was able to solve that "NEED" for my B11, so you can (if you care to) feel free to shed light on what the biggest change you made to eliminate the pinging.

    That said, it was nothing like the many other stock mapped EFI bikes I've owned.

    Nothing like the RK, Sporty, Jackal, R1100, 696, V7 etc.

    None of them suffered anything similar.

    So there was a failing in that case of design by Guzzi.
     
  14. GT-Rx®

    GT-Rx® Administrator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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    Thanks Kev, I didn't remember you tried Octane Booster in your B11. Your Jackal (and likely most of the others you list outside of perhaps the 696/R1100), were in a much milder state of tune, power output wise. All of the '06+ motors, in order to up the performance #'s and to meet lower emissions, Guzzi tried everything, and perhaps in Europe is is fair. Here in N.A., it's quite horrific.

    I'll be posting more info on the new small block as I have it.
     
  15. Corn Oil Kid

    Corn Oil Kid Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    I never have had a pinging issue with my Breva. Yes, on very hot day it will ping under heavy load at lower RPM, but nothing to get alarmed about, I just make sure that when I'm poring on the coals that I run it up into the fun zone before shifting.

    I did put Todd's o2 optimizer on, and that did make lower rpms less abrupt, but I have to say I have not found the issues of extreme heat and pinging, that Kev had.

    I'm confident enough to say that it is not just my subjective perspective, but rather my Breva just doesn't behave the way Kev's did. That makes me wonder if they did something different at the factory, or if it comes down to subtle differences in state of tune? I know Kev jumped through a few hoops to try to get his Breva to ping less and run cooler, but with only limited success.
     
  16. Kev M

    Kev M Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    I think mine was a fluke. Pete Roper thought it might be a defective ECU.

    I do think, from hearing about other's B11's that it was at least uncommon.

    And as such, the "exception that proves the rule". I.E that it shouldn't be "necessary" to reflash, even if desirable.

    That said, it still runs pretty warm in warm ambient temps. But that's nature of the beast largely from tank design, made worse by lowered seat.
     
  17. Instg8r

    Instg8r Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Do we figure there wont be any news on the newer small block until fall?

    Matt
     
  18. jevincent

    jevincent Just got it firing!

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    If there is a new small block for 15, when would It hit North American shores?

    Joe
     
  19. Corn Oil Kid

    Corn Oil Kid Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    I don't imagine we will here much prior to the intro at the Milan show in Nov.

    Lucky for us the days of waiting a year to get last years bikes are over. Seems Piaggio gets that NA needs to get bikes around the same time as the rest of the world. I would expect we will get them sometime in 15.
     
  20. dennis2

    dennis2 Just got it firing!

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    I would keep the retro look but I would like ABS and enough alternator output to handle heated gear, maybe 150 watts extra. A little more power wouldn't hurt..... B)
     

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