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Norge 8V OIl in Airbox but low oil level? Huh?

David Bracey

Tuned and Synch'ed
GT Contributor
Joined
Feb 2, 2018
Messages
59
Location
Maidstone and London, United Kingdom
Mileage now is 9,210mile.


I rode into London on Monday and when in traffic got an oil warning light come on. Went after I pulled away and the revs got above 2,000rpm but came back whenever at idle. After letting the bike cool overnight I rode home without any warning lights at all. If it wasn’t for the light I’d have never had any concerns. I suspected a dodgy pressure sensor so have ordered one from Guzzi along with an adaptor so they’ve clearly had problems with these and have now changed the design.


However, I decided to investigate properly today and the found that the oil level was a bit low. Just on the bottom of the dipstick. Sorry about the blurry photo but you can see the level just about.

Norge dipstick photo 1

I then started removing the plasticwork so that I could see if I could find a leak. Quite a lot was oily so I eventually ended up removing the tank and had a look in the airbox which has quite a lot of fresh oil in it.
Norge airbox photo 2


The engine breather pipes come into a collector box on the from of the airfilter and the hoses have been leaking and dripping oil down onto the engine which is where I think most of the mess has come from. I haven’t checked the pressure sensor yet so that could also be leaking.



So I am a bit baffled. I would have thought that oil in the airbox would indicate the crankcases being overfilled with oil. But the dipstick suggests otherwise.


Can anyone give me any ideas as to what might be going on? I appreciate any help you can offer.


Thanks,


David
 

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So I am a bit baffled. I would have thought that oil in the airbox would indicate the crankcases being overfilled with oil. But the dipstick suggests otherwise.

You are assuming that the current oil level has always been that level, and that the oil in the airbox just showed up there recently. Unless I'm seeing things, there are some milky streaks in that oil, indicating some moisture being integrated into the oil, probably from moisture being drawn into the airbox from rain or a bike wash, which also leads me to think its been there for awhile.

It's much more likely that that oil has been there since immediately after the last oil change which was likely slightly overfilled, and now the oil level has slowly decreased in the motorcycle due to leaking up at the hoses.

As a liner note on the human experience and not you personally - I will never understand the human predilection to chase the upper limit mark on an oil dipstick. It's a range showing the minimum and the maximum. ANYWHERE between those 2 marks is FINE. Never chase the upper mark. You will overfill it every time.

Clean out that oil and then I would highly recommend sending some preventative measure of carb cleaner down through the stepper motor which is well described in the forums.
 
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Thank you for contributing so quickly.

It was a pretty wet morning so I’m not sure whether there was any water in that air box oil, but it was a good observation and you might be correct. Thank you.

I drained out the sump and there was only 2 litres in the bike. So this is good news for the oil sensor as that was clearly working and I won’t bother changing that just yet. Having cleaned everything up I guess I’ll monitor it and see what happens. I fitted a hiflo 551 filter and put in 3 litres which is midway up the dipstick.

The bike has only done 1,000 miles since last service so perhaps it wasn’t filled properly by the dealer.

Have taken your advice and fired carb cleaner through the stepper motor. Thanks again.

I also repaired the oil breather pipe splits with some adhesive heat shrink so shouldn’t get any leaks from that.

Thanks again.

David
 
When I got my bike back from a dealer after a service, I checked the oil level and found it high. I drained over 1/2 a litre from the sump before it got down to the correct level. Air box also had lots of oil and I had to replace the air filter too.
Bike had done very few miles since the last service so they decided not to renew the filter, but still put the full measured amount of oil in.
 
This is somewhat related and I thought you might get a chuckle out of this.

It’s true that there are some crappy mechanics out there, but to get really great screw ups, nothing beats the motorcycle owner in my book, especially for head scratching bewilderment.

I was working on a customers motorcycle yesterday, a Yamaha V-Star 650 twin. When it arrived to me, I noticed oil literally ALL OVER the engine and frame. I put a tray underneath it knowing that I didn’t want a mess in my shop.

This bike puked oil all over my tray the first night it came to me.

It usually takes several days for me to get to a bike once it has been checked into my shop as demand is high and there is just me and I usually have 5 or 6 in the shop at a time, but this motorcycle continued to puke oil every day, just sitting there, until I got to it on my lift. I thought maybe the block had a crack or hole in it.

Well, this particular motorcycle stopped running with no spark and its pickup coil resistance was 2.6 M-Ohms when it should be about 250 Ohms. (2.6 million v s. 250) so yeah, the pickup coil was fried.

On this bike, to make the repair, you have to drain the oil as the pickup coil is inside the engine.

I put a clean drip pan under the engine, popped the drain plug and went to the bathroom for a moment. When I returned, I was SHOCKED to see this underneath the motorcycle1

IMG 3240

i couldn’t believe my eyes...so I measured it.

AC25C504 C18D 46E3 BC9C 4B5C514C095A

I could hardly believe my eyes. I DRAINED 5 liters of oil out of a crankcase which had been puking oil out of it for days, and was rated for 2.6 liters capacity, stamped right on the housing no less! I’m POSITIVE there had to have been at least 6 liters of oil originally in this motorcycle. I cannot believe it ran at all!

The owner said “it was leaking oil so i just added more to replace what leaked out”.

I had to bite my tongue to not strongly suggest that he might want to take up a different hobby...

Have a great day!
 
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Well, an update.

Cleaned out everything in the airbox and drain pipes and cleaned throttle body stepper motor with carb cleaner as recommended by Scott (thank you.) Changed the oil and fitted a new hi-flow filter. Filled to just above the bottom mark on the dipstick. All good so far.

Rode into London this morning (50 miles) and at exactly the same heavy traffic road junction as before I get a warning light and oil can symbol.

Proceeded for another 3 miles but found the bike dripping oil and dumping a puddle where I have parked. Leaking from the right side of the engine somewhere but haven't had a chance to investigate yet. I suspect it's the repair to the oil breather pipe to the airbox that I made with adhesive heatshrink that has given way but that's guesswork. Definitely not from the oil filter.

Looks as if for some reason this bike is dumping oil to the airbox even though it isn't overfilled.

Will trailer the bike home tomorrow and begin a proper investigation but If anyone has any suggestions to throw into the mix I would be very grateful.

Thanks in anticipation.

David
 
You'll probably find that the oil breather lines are cracked at the other end as well. That's where mine were cracked and leaking. I replaced them after a temporary fix of cutting off a short piece failed soon afterwards.
Thanks Raven, I suspect you're right. I have actually now received a complete new breather pipe to fit. My real concern is why it's had so much oil going through it when I definitely hadn't overfilled.
 
Well David...

Thanks for the kind words. I'm fairly confident that replacing the breather will resolve your issue.

Depending upon the cracks, air may have been amplified by riding and the extra air pressure may be pushing that oil up into the airbox.

I know that it sucks to repeat a cleaning and repair, but start fresh with the new breather, make sure you use clamps to attach the breather tube. You probably don't have the original Oetiker type clamps, but really, any type of clamp will suffice, either screw or ring clip will do. Just be sure that you have an absolutely clean connection, and that it is secured.

Then recheck your oil level. Remember, never chase the FULL mark, as ANYWHERE between the lowest and the highest reading is FINE.

Go ride the motorcycle on the expressway and then recheck for oil in the airbox again. If it happens again, we will have to ponder it more closely.

Oh, and be sure to give that stepper valve another quick shot of cleaner after removing this oil too. Won't hurt it and will clean out any oil that managed to get back in there again.

Good Luck!
 
Good luck, David, on resolving this maddening (and literal) mess. :(

I am riding my Norge over to Hanover, Pa., tomorrow, and will now -- in addition to the usual T-CLOCK pre-flight -- do a quick check for that sort of issue.

Lordy. It's a good thing these beasts are so intoxicating or we'd just shoot them between the eyes and take the car.

Ah, but they are. :giggle:

Bill
 
Well David...

Thanks for the kind words. I'm fairly confident that replacing the breather will resolve your issue.

Depending upon the cracks, air may have been amplified by riding and the extra air pressure may be pushing that oil up into the airbox.

I know that it sucks to repeat a cleaning and repair, but start fresh with the new breather, make sure you use clamps to attach the breather tube. You probably don't have the original Oetiker type clamps, but really, any type of clamp will suffice, either screw or ring clip will do. Just be sure that you have an absolutely clean connection, and that it is secured.

Then recheck your oil level. Remember, never chase the FULL mark, as ANYWHERE between the lowest and the highest reading is FINE.

Go ride the motorcycle on the expressway and then recheck for oil in the airbox again. If it happens again, we will have to ponder it more closely.

Oh, and be sure to give that stepper valve another quick shot of cleaner after removing this oil too. Won't hurt it and will clean out any oil that managed to get back in there again.

Good Luck!
Hi Scott, do you have any thoughts as to why I am getting a low oil warning whilst all this is happening? I have bought a new oil pressure sensor so will fit it whilst I have the bike in pieces but if you can think of anything else it might be sensible to change I'd be grateful for your advice. This bike has only done 9,200 miles.

David
 
Hi Scott, do you have any thoughts as to why I am getting a low oil warning whilst all this is happening? I have bought a new oil pressure sensor so will fit it whilst I have the bike in pieces but if you can think of anything else it might be sensible to change I'd be grateful for your advice. This bike has only done 9,200 miles.
Short list, check the oil pan gasket (meaning remove the pan), some bikes have had the gasket severed in between the pan and the oil supply, and long shot would be possible oil pump failure (not that the 8V has had this issue. Yet.).
 
Hi Scott, do you have any thoughts as to why I am getting a low oil warning whilst all this is happening? I have bought a new oil pressure sensor so will fit it whilst I have the bike in pieces but if you can think of anything else it might be sensible to change I'd be grateful for your advice. This bike has only done 9,200 miles.

David

Todd beat me to it.

Get new oil pan gaskets #24, (and I would get a #26 also and change that out while it is apart), and pull the entire pan.

You most likely have a leak in #24 where the oil pump bolts to the engine, which worsens as it gets hotter.

PNG image
 
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Thanks Scott. I was wondering which one to get. I have an intermittent oil light at hot idle also. A winter project as I had my last ride of the season today. 5 inches+ of snow is coming on Sunday.
 
Todd beat me to it.

Get new oil pan gaskets #24, (and I would get a #26 also and change that out while it is apart), and pull the entire pan.

You most likely have a leak in #24 where the oil pump bolts to the engine, which worsens as it gets hotter.

View attachment 21038

Maybe the sumps and gaskets are same on 4v and 8v Norges, Scott, but that chart appears to be for my firstgen, and the OP's is, I think, an 8v. Again, maybe a non-issue.

I took my last Norge ride today in wonderfully warm weather. As will Raven, I'll do that gasket swap this as winter when I do "deep cleaning," etc.

i-HFBNFf9-L.jpg


i-TjcWfd7-L.jpg



And, WRT winter moto-tasks, this will likely become a separate thread if searching reveals no prior assistance. Despite my mention of "wonderfully warm," it was wasn't when I started. So, another winter's job will be renewing my heated grips. Those have, after 15 years, become tepid echoes of their once toasty past. :cry: It was 42F for my first 50 miles, but warmed up to mid-70's after that. I was nonetheless grateful for a construction hold-up early on so I could warm my "undergloved" hands on those jugs. :clap:

Bill
 
Maybe the sumps and gaskets are same on 4v and 8v Norges, Scott, but that chart appears to be for my firstgen, and the OP's is, I think, an 8v. Again, maybe a non-issue.

Good catch Bill!

I didn’t notice the older gen Norge link on AF1 as I had selected the 8V but your hunch is indeed correct, the gaskets are the same on both..

5B6B9ABF 7DB3 40C1 ABA3 F614620461F4

CAEB501A 6C79 4CDD BD49 12DB1618A1C1
 
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