Norge oil pump rotor replacement?

[nwrider]

I have VIN# 112089 but only have 14k on it so far. I know of another sold at the same time as mine ( the first two Norges in at Cascade Moto in Beaverton, OR) with VIN xxx087 with more miles on it. I'm going to send him an e-mail so he can follow up if he chooses.

 

[guzzibob]

I have VIN# 112089 but only have 14k on it so far. I know of another sold at the same time as mine ( the first two Norges in at Cascade Moto in Beaverton, OR) with VIN xxx087 with more miles on it. I'm going to send him an e-mail so he can follow up if he chooses.

What we are tracking is VIN #s of bikes with failed oil pumps. Either of these 2 failed? Numbers would seem to be mid-late '06 date of manufacture.

 

[Nick]

Will be at RH tomorrow having EV on diagnostic and TB's balanced, so I'll ask Ian and Steve about cost of part(s) and the time and difficulty of the task for a handy amateur (e.g., you, not me!).

Bill

Hi Bill,
Anything to report on this?
Thanks,
Nick

 

[Bill Hagan]

Will be at RH tomorrow having EV on diagnostic and TB's balanced, so I'll ask Ian and Steve about cost of part(s) and the time and difficulty of the task for a handy amateur (e.g., you, not me!).

Bill

Hi Bill,
Anything to report on this?
Thanks,
Nick

Long story, but, regrettably, no.

Would also think that best source for answer based on actual work, not guesswork, might be healeyblue who had it done. No doubt some regional differences in price-per-hour, but time ought to be about the same.

FWIW, on a "only sort of related" note, discovered (to my mild astonisment) that I was still running the original map. Installed 18 and found the bog at just below 6K seems to have disappeared, tho I actually seem to have a wee bit more popping on decel.

Bill

 

[Nick]

Will be at RH tomorrow having EV on diagnostic and TB's balanced, so I'll ask Ian and Steve about cost of part(s) and the time and difficulty of the task for a handy amateur (e.g., you, not me!).

Bill

Hi Bill,
Anything to report on this?
Thanks,
Nick

Long story, but, regrettably, no.

Would also think that best source for answer based on actual work, not guesswork, might be healeyblue who had it done. No doubt some regional differences in price-per-hour, but time ought to be about the same.

FWIW, on a "only sort of related" note, discovered (to my mild astonisment) that I was still running the original map. Installed 18 and found the bog at just below 6K seems to have disappeared, tho I actually seem to have a wee bit more popping on decel.

Bill

Thank you Bill.

After reading all of this, I may not be taking the Norge to the WV rally at Pipestem after all. It's a long way from home to have the problem manifest itself.
After I hear from healeyblue, I may just order a new oil pump, and then wait for John Wells' photographic documentation (including video) of his oil pump replacement project.

Nick

 

[guzzibob]

My kind of summary from a similar thread (with somewhat less info than we have here) over on Wildguzzi:

Quote from: DanR on September 17, 2010, 06:40:47 AM
another Norge Oil pump failure ..... It was an Early 07 Norge ...... VIN ...7M112208.......

Mine is 7M113013 which following NORMAL logic indicate a later build date or 805 units later.

My (Guzzibob) post:

I'm pretty sure that 112208 VIN is 10/06, not early 07 Date of Manufacture. I am aware of the following VIN failures for sure: 112208, 210, 305, and suspected 303. None of these is beyond 11/06. I have heard of ONE failure somewhat later, but until I get the VIN & can confirm for sure I'm not passing that info on. To give a little perspective, earliest Norge VIN listed on the Guzzitech registry is 111409, latest 114242(neither a failure as far as we know). My Norge is 6/07 date of manufacture & VIN 113735, with zero signs of problems at 25k miles. There have been a few other reported failures I am aware of where the reporter didn't/wouldn't give the VIN. If you have one of those, or know of them, please please publish the VIN numbers here & over at Guzzitech so we can share the data & prevent unnecessary carnage.

So we have at least several thousand Norges out there, with a bare handful of known failures, all that we for sure know the VIN of in a cluster around 10-11/06 manufacture date. Importantly, every single report I have seen was preceded by repeated ongoing indications of impending failure in the form or warning lights, with plenty of opportunity to do something about it if you assume the warning lights could be serious, & not just a false warning. Certainly there are plenty of Norges with all kinds of miles on them both before & after the known failures. So far sure looks like a very few poorly made pumps, all installed about the same time in late '06.

[EDIT 10/2/10-NOW CONFIRMED ONE FAILURE BUILD DATE APRIL OR MAY 07, THE FIRST-& SO FAR ONLY-CONFIRMED ONE OUTSIDE OF THE PREV KNOWN 10-11/06 BUILD CLUSTER. I'M HOPING THIS TURNS OUT TO BE LIKE THE CARC FAILURES, IE MOST ALL FROM A KNOWN BAD SUPPLY AROUND A KNOWN TIME PERIOD & RECALLED AS SUCH, BUT TURNED OUT A VERY FEW OF THE OLD BAD PARTS APPARANTLY HUNG AROUND & GOT SLIPPED IN BIKES OUTSIDE THE KNOWN RECALL PERIOD.]

At the moment unless I have a VIN/date of manufacture in the immediate vicinity of the known failures I'm not real worried. Unless my oil light comes on more than once while running (and/or stays on for more than a moment)-in which case I'm parking the sucker until I can get the oil pump physically checked out/examined by someone I trust.

 

[healeyblue]

An update for those who have been following this thread: I posted this on Wild Guzzi earlier today.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It is my Norge that is in discussion. It is an early 2007. October 2006 build. Shortly after purchase (used from first owner in November 2009 with about 4500 miles) I noticed that the oil light and red triangle would come on upon a cold start. The lights would remain on until RPM was above about 2500 and then go off, never to come on again. This obviously didn't seem normal but the fact that the lights didn't come on again during riding or after a restart later on the same day didn't give me too much concern. However, oil pump failure threads on this forum and GuzziTech, especially centered around bikes of my manufacture date, led me to go forward with a pre-emptive tear down and inspection. I had the work done by Steve @ Beemers and more Motorcycle Works in Fort Collins, CO. This dealership began as an independent BMW repair facility and is also a Piaggio brands dealer.

The rotor was broken. Steve indicated that it was in multiple pieces much like photos in the Moto & Loisir article and at least one photo referenced in another post. I have not yet picked up the bike (will do so Tuesday) but all is back together and functioning properly. Total price for the repair: $1100. The pump itself is about $450 from MG. FYI, I will post photos of the broken rotor sometime next week.

Although this bike was delivered to the first owner in January 2007, it now only has about 8,000 miles on it. Steve contacted Piaggio to try to get some financial help from them on the repair but was not successful.
I understand that this bike is long out of warranty but since it seems that the oil pump rotor failure is a known problem on early build Norges, both here and in Europe, I am going to contact Piaggio Customer Service and see if I can get any assistance. Any advice or suggestions on whom to contact would be appreciated.

I really enjoy riding this bike and look forward to many more reliable miles.

 

[Nick]

thank you healeyblue

 

[Cat City Rider]

An update for those who have been following this thread: I posted this on Wild Guzzi earlier today.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It is my Norge that is in discussion. It is an early 2007. October 2006 build. Shortly after purchase (used from first owner in November 2009 with about 4500 miles) I noticed that the oil light and red triangle would come on upon a cold start. The lights would remain on until RPM was above about 2500 and then go off, never to come on again. This obviously didn't seem normal but the fact that the lights didn't come on again during riding or after a restart later on the same day didn't give me too much concern. However, oil pump failure threads on this forum and GuzziTech, especially centered around bikes of my manufacture date, led me to go forward with a pre-emptive tear down and inspection. I had the work done by Steve @ Beemers and more Motorcycle Works in Fort Collins, CO. This dealership began as an independent BMW repair facility and is also a Piaggio brands dealer.

The rotor was broken. Steve indicated that it was in multiple pieces much like photos in the Moto & Loisir article and at least one photo referenced in another post. I have not yet picked up the bike (will do so Tuesday) but all is back together and functioning properly. Total price for the repair: $1100. The pump itself is about $450 from MG. FYI, I will post photos of the broken rotor sometime next week.

Although this bike was delivered to the first owner in January 2007, it now only has about 8,000 miles on it. Steve contacted Piaggio to try to get some financial help from them on the repair but was not successful.
I understand that this bike is long out of warranty but since it seems that the oil pump rotor failure is a known problem on early build Norges, both here and in Europe, I am going to contact Piaggio Customer Service and see if I can get any assistance. Any advice or suggestions on whom to contact would be appreciated.

I really enjoy riding this bike and look forward to many more reliable miles.

Try this:
Customer Care
Phone (212)380-4400
Email customercare@piaggiogroupamericas.com

I have found some help from them.

 

[guzzibob]

Yep healeyblue, so follows the pattern. 10 or 11/06 build date, & plenty of warning. Good on you for listening to that warning & saving yourself a ton of $ and/or possibly worse. A good lesson for the rest of us.

 

[healeyblue]

Thanks for the contact info Brian. I will get in touch with them and hope for the best. I'll post photos of the broken rotor after I pick the bike up on Tuesday.

 

[healeyblue]

Got the Norge back today with new oil pump. Took about six hours of labor including pulling pan to check for stray metal bits, etc.
To reiterate, I did have warning lights at cold startup that went out upon the engine reaching about 2,000 RPM. They only came on at cold startup and not always then.

Here are photos of the broken one:

 

[GTM®]

Can you send me the broken pump? I'll try to offer an improved version.

 

[healeyblue]

Todd,

I will shoot it out to you shortly.

Roger

 

[RJVB]

Improved meaning many more pieces and yet function perfectly fine? :silly:

@healy: the Moto & Loisirs article has a small interview with a Piaggio rep wherein it's suggested that they'll step up to cover expenses if a pump fails. I'd hope that doesn't only extend to Europe or places where 'hidden vice' legislation is in place...

@Bill: I had the same surprise, finding the original map in my bike this summer. My dealer and I are both convinced updates were done, so that almost begs the question if there's a way for the ECU to fall back onto some original, 'hard-wired' map...?!

 

[Nick]

the Moto & Loisirs article has a small interview with a Piaggio rep wherein it's suggested that they'll step up to cover expenses if a pump fails.

Is it possible to post a link to that article?
Thank you,
Nick

 

[RJVB]

No, it's not online, but I'm pretty sure I sent scans to Todd last year. Sorry!

 

[healeyblue]

Rene,

Thanks for the original post of the M&L article.

Here is the URL to find it on this forum..https://www.guzzitech.com/forum/topic.html?f=188&t=4231&p=30653&hilit=moto+loisirs#p30653

 

[RJVB]

Heh ... I had no idea it was still online...

 

[guzzibob]

Rene,

Thanks for the original post of the M&L article.

Here is the URL to find it on this forum..https://www.guzzitech.com/forum/topic.html?f=188&t=4231&p=30653&hilit=moto+loisirs#p30653

Unfortunately (for most of us here) not in English.