Ridemalibu Motorcycle Rentals & Tours – Los Angeles CA
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Oh No - Not Tires

Discussion in 'Cal 1400 8V' started by abbienormal, Jun 4, 2014.

  1. just James

    just James Tuned and Synch'ed

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    While I do appreciate the references that you cited, and will read them when I have time, I won't be calling you "snotty", or a "jerk". I retired from that type of thing about 50 years ago. If you would like to engage in civil discourse, that would be great.
    I am not the first person to try this, so it is not totally uncharted waters. There are quite a few people who have done this for many thousands of miles. Have you spoken to any of them?
    I guess it's a little bit like listening to an aeronautical engineer explain why bumble bees cannot fly, and then observing them fly with my own eyes.
     
  2. Quattroa4m

    Quattroa4m Tuned and Synch'ed

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    As I stated before, gutsy!

    However, just because you can do something, doesn't mean that it's a good idea.

    Other people may have gotten away with it, but there's just as high a likelihood that many did not. Coupled with that is the high probability of liability in the case of an accident. Worse yet, it's highly likely any insurance coverage would be invalidated.

    Granted, most of us older riders took risks when we were younger. Hopefully we learned something as indicated by the fact that we're still around.

    At the end of the day, what's being advocated here could get someone killed. Maybe not today or even a couple of years from now. But if that day comes, no one is going to care that two years elapsed without a problem. All they're going to care about is product misapplication.
     
  3. PaulDavies

    PaulDavies Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    I have no axe to grind either way as I've never even thought about fitting a car tire to a bike. Whether or not the solution "flys" isn't really the concern (but I would be interested to experience the result in a car park, just out of curiosity). Fact is, I would be more scared about the impact on my insurance. We all know (or suspect) that it doesn't take much for an insurance company to wriggle out of any claim they can and they'll sure wriggle harder if there's serious injury to a third party. Do you really want to fight that battle so you can save a few $$$'s on tires when the potential downside is "they take all your money and home and give it to them".

    If the 3rd party sued because your insurance would not cough up, I strongly suspect it would be up to *you" to prove that your modifications to the bike did not contribute to the accident. From what I can read online that would be difficult (not to mention costly) when all the experts in the field, Engineers, manufacturers etc advise against it and it's acknowledged by everyone that's tried it, that fitting a car tire changes the handling of a bike in significant ways.

    It's one thing to argue your case on a forum like this, quite something else to argue it in court in the face of expert opinions. Just because the courts are not full of such claims, doesn't mean they'll go easy on you, in fact I'm sure someone would relish the opportunity to set a precedent in just such a case - just saying, that's not something I would want to take on.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2018
  4. Trout

    Trout GT Reference

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    First: I'm not a fan of the dark side because that is just me being me.

    Second: Many Victory riders & quite a few Goldwing riders do run darkside & many of the the Vic riders are not slow riders & have logged enough miles to prove it to be safer than I would like to believe.

    Third: Personally I would be more inclined to try it on my Vic than I would on any of my Guzzi's simply because of the characteristics of the bike. I think the darkside on a Guzzi is going to throw the handling off way more than on the Vic & the Vic is a great handling bike.

    Each to his own, I'll stick with bike tires on bikes.
     
  5. Touringman

    Touringman Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Excellent information. Very detailed. Some of it I knew and some of it i was suspicious about, my gut always has said "don't go to the dark side." To paraphrase Dr. Ian Malcolm; "The dark siders always seem so preoccupied with whether they can, they never stop to think about whether they should."
    Can and should are often two very different animals...I will stick with my Avon's...in the factory sizes.
    Ride Safe
    Kirk
     
  6. scottmastrocinque

    scottmastrocinque Scott Mastrocinque GT Famiglia

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    Actually James, you didn't retire from it, you just got better at doing it backhandly. Your original post drips of snideness, innuendo, anecdotal gibberish, and your pinnacle statement that you will give an "honest report", thereby insinuating that anybody who disagrees with you and your anecdotal evidence, is being dishonest. (I bolded and underlined your comments which I clearly felt were snotty and being a jerk. Perhaps you might want to re-read them.

    Your "never tried it" argument takes the cake though. I don't shoot heroin, do you know why? I don't have to "try it" to know it's a bad idea. I can examine the facts and scientific evidence and formulate a logical, rational conclusion.

    So, the bottom line here regarding car tires on motorcycles is I don't "think" I know what I am taking about here. I know precisely what I am talking about, forwards and backwards. Given that, I don't pull punches. When you are dead ass wrong, I will say so, especially if what you are suggesting is tantamount to giving stupid, suicidal advice. I love this forum and feel that we have a responsibility to not give people information that can endanger their or others lives.

    To that end, James, you're dead ass wrong here! Dangerously so, and I will not let you get away with it unchallenged.

    This is not about "the dark side" nor is it about bumble bees. It's about utter stupidity compounded with being completely ignorant of the engineering behind motorcycles and specifically motorcycle wheels, tires, and handling characteristics, and then suggesting that simply because others have been fucking stupid, it's okay to be fucking stupid too! Are you kidding me?

    Did it ever occur to you that the overwhelming majority of motor-vehicle accidents resulting in a serious debilitating injury or death, are never analyzed in more than a superficial manner. No detailed inquiries are made into equipment specifications as a matter of normal police reporting of most fatalities. It makes sense that you aren't going to read about it. Besides, it's anecdotal.

    I'll stick with engineering, physics, and math; all three of these disciplines are in direct opposition to what you are proposing.

    I'm glad you'll read the info I gave you "when you have the time". Good for you. I suggest you pay strict attention to the sections about how the rims on a motorcycle have a completely different sealing lip profile than a car rim, as well as motorcycle tires sidewall seal profile versus car tires.

    But then again, I'm quite convinced that you will never educate yourself on this topic. Your cup is already full of the bullshit Kool-Aid you've been drinking and continue to drink on this topic.

    I'm done here.

    “It is unsafe to install passenger tires on motorcycle rims. Motorcycle tires and corresponding motorcycle rims (typically marked with “M/C” and/or “MT”) are designed with a different bead seat diameter and flange contour than passenger car tires/rims. Consequently, any attempt to mount a passenger car tire on a motorcycle rim may cause inflation pressure loss or the beads to break with explosive force resulting in possible serious physical injury or death.”
    (Rubber Manufacturers Association, Tire Information Service Bulletin, Vol. 28, No. 3, 2012.)"
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2018
    Quattroa4m likes this.
  7. just James

    just James Tuned and Synch'ed

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    Scott, sorry that I seem to have upset you so badly.
    I have not recommended that anyone else try this. You seem to be the one who has made up his mind, and apparently are not at all interested in honestly examining the experiences of people on the other side of this topic.
    Furthermore, all I meant when I said that I will give an honest report, is that I will not pretend that I am happy with the change, if I really am not. I would not have too much pride to admit that I do not like the change, if that turns out to be the case.

    I did not sign up here to argue with people, or try to tell others what to do.
    I really enjoy reading the posts on here from others who own bikes like mine, as we really are a tiny percentage of the motorcycling community.
     
  8. Quattroa4m

    Quattroa4m Tuned and Synch'ed

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    Unfortunately, you're still missing the point by your statement, "...apparently are not at all interested in honestly examining the experiences of people on the other side of this topic." Really?

    Scott's heroin analogy is spot on. The vast body of evidence would indicate that this a "shallow end of the gene pool" thing to do.

    The other side of this, and this is the rather maddening aspect, is that if someone ends up hurt, disabled, or dead there's a reasonable probability of a lawsuit. Why? Because a 16" car tire was able to be mounted on a 16" motorcycle rim, the motorcycle manual didn't say not to mount car tires on a motorcycle, etc. The list of possibilities is endless.

    In the end, all of us end up paying for ill advised "experiments" like this. And, unfortunately, it does nothing to advance the cause of the motorcycling community.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
  9. GTM®

    GTM® Administrator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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    Guys, easy here. If people want to experiment, they will at their own risk/peril.
    The grand poobah of the MGNOC has run many a rear car tire on his 1400, but he lives in Kansas.
    No need to go to battle here on this.
     
    John L likes this.
  10. CBJoe

    CBJoe Tuned and Synch'ed GT Contributor

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    My wife and I have worn through the factory Dunlops and 2 sets of the Metzler 880s through a lot of hard touring. I got about 6K out of this last 880 Rear before it was fairly squared off. Still has a little life in it but we're heading from Indianapolis to Colorado and then north to Wyoming and back at the end of the month and I've got a Michelin Commander II 180/65/16 on order and will have it mounted later this week.

    I'll post my pics and thoughts afterwards. As for recalibration. With how much these other tires have worn square I doubt that I'll notice a difference in the Michelin due to circumference.

    I've got no front tire complaints right now. I put an avon cobra on it about 3.5K miles ago and it looks good. I did notice some possible balance vibration on the last trip out west but I think I'll probably pull off the wheel and have the balance properly checked before leaving on this next one.

    And just to keep things light :) here's a picture of the guzzi doing proper load balancing with proper loads up in the Adirondacks ;)

    Cheers, Joe

    IMG_0550.JPG
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
  11. just James

    just James Tuned and Synch'ed

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    Nice looking bike. Is that a stock touring seat, or the custom seat? Hard for me to tell from the angle of that photo. And, what passenger backrest is that?
    My wife does not like the stock seat on my California Custom, and I think that a backrest might make her more comfortable.
    Thanks, James
     
  12. CBJoe

    CBJoe Tuned and Synch'ed GT Contributor

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    My bike is actually a 2014 custom (purchased in Feb. 2015) and I added the saddle bags, Touring Seat, and windshield right from the get go. The seat is from the red model touring that came in 2015 if I remember correctly. I still have the original custom seat, but the wife doesn't like riding on it :)

    The backrest is a Hepco Becker w/luggage rack. When touring we have a rack extender to give a flatter/larger surface for a duffel bag. I think its a hepco becker as well.

    Cheers, Joe
     
  13. scottmastrocinque

    scottmastrocinque Scott Mastrocinque GT Famiglia

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    Apologies.

    Without going into the details, yes, I am incredibly passionate about this topic and why I initially implored you not to do this.

    It is because when I worked at BMW Motorcycles, one of my favorite customers was killed when his rear mounted car tire, suddenly and unexpectedly lost sealing on the K1200LT motorcycle rim on S6 - Mt. Palomar. In an instant, he lost control and went head-on into the oncoming truck and was killed instantly.

    I'm sorry I said anything at all.
     
  14. just James

    just James Tuned and Synch'ed

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    I am very sorry that you lost a friend that way.
    As painful as it may be to talk or write about, that is the type of information that I am seeking. I really do want to hear both sides of this issue.
    Up to this point, I had never heard of a case of someone actually having a catastrophic failure due to using a car tire.
    Thanks for explaining why you feel so strongly about this.
     
  15. just James

    just James Tuned and Synch'ed

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    Thanks for the reply.
    My bike is set up very similar to yours. I bought mine used, and it has a small rack on it that I think is a Moto Guzzi part(not sure). I would like to get a touring seat, to see if the little woman likes it better. However, I am a cheapskate :) so I am not willing to spend much, only to find that she doesn't like that one either.
     
  16. GTM®

    GTM® Administrator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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    Scott, don’t be sorry. Those are important details to post. I personally would never do it, and the reason you state drives that point home further.
     
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  17. CBJoe

    CBJoe Tuned and Synch'ed GT Contributor

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    I got the Michelin Commander II 180/65-16 mounted to the rear yesterday. The shop had no issues seating the bead. I was a little worried on how it would look on the bike as there was quite a noticeable difference in size if you had the two tires sitting right next to each other. However I think it looks good on the bike and the first short ride proved to have nice handling, though I had to take it a little easy until I break in the tire. Also replaced the Pads all the way around so bedding those in.

    Posting pictures for reference as I don't think I've seen any that give a good rear and side profile of the Michelin. The front tire is a AV71 in stock size.

    Doing a long road trip at the end of the month...cant wait to see how it holds up fully loaded with passenger.

    Cheers, Joe

    IMG-1091.JPG

    IMG-1093.JPG
     
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  18. Quattroa4m

    Quattroa4m Tuned and Synch'ed

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    Not bad, not bad at all!
     
  19. rudylexus

    rudylexus Just got it firing!

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    Just home from a roadtrip of 7900 km. ,fully loaded with passenger. With my previous michelin commander, i drove 16.000 km. Grtz Rudy
    Sardinië.JPG
     
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  20. CBJoe

    CBJoe Tuned and Synch'ed GT Contributor

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    Nice Looking Guzi Rudy...are those rain covers on the bags?
     

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