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Outex tubeless conversion for spoke wheels

Discussion in 'Chat & Tech Info' started by timax, Apr 22, 2017.

  1. timax

    timax Tuned and Synch'ed

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    So has anyone fitted one of these kits or similar to their V7 II rims?
    I see from google a Loop Frame Guzzi owner has done the conversion and the ducati guys seem to like using carbon kevlar tape.
    Just looking into ways of making my bike easier to tour with.
    And no i dont want alloy wheels.
     
  2. GTM®

    GTM® Administrator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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    I've done my own silicone sealing. At 5+ years now with zero issues. Seems this "kit" is mostly 3M's 4412N sealing tape, and the off-road guys are wrapping it with gorilla tape for added protection. Rim prep is 100% of the success.
    Off-roaders give it a thumbs up, street guys give mixed reviews. For a $30 roll of tape on Amazon, might be worth a shot (with a 50/50 health and well being risk). Let us know if you try it and how it works out.
     
  3. Bill Meyer

    Bill Meyer Tuned and Synch'ed GT Contributor

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    Since I'm new here i keep finding old threads of interest so I'll chime in here. I successfully sealed the spoke wheels on my 650 Royal Enfield using the method Todd mentions. There are several proven "home brew" variations on the silicone sealer/3M tape method.

    The commercial Outex kit from Japan gets good reviews but it costs $100 +.

    Prep is everything on this task but done correctly it lends peace of mind "out there".

    I looked into having it done at a well known wheel specialty shop but by the time I shipped my bare wheels the job could bump into the $600 range. I did it myself for about $30. The money I saved I then spent on a NO MAR tire changer!!!
     
  4. RodgerMillan

    RodgerMillan Just got it firing!

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    A year back when I was in the process of the same kit conversion this advrider.com/f/threads/outex-tubless-conversion.1296939/ conversation helped me a lot. And it's working fine and well.:)
     
  5. Scott Burghart

    Scott Burghart Just got it firing! GT Contributor

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    I recently did the rear wheel, on my V7 III Special with the, with the Outex kit and I lose 2lbs of pressure per day. I did the prep carefully but when putting down the tape I had a snafu and my attempts to correct it were not entirely successful. They make a sealer for slow leaks and am considering it. But I have ridden about 2,000 miles with no issues. Not in a real hurry to do the front but when it comes time for that Road Attack III I will probably give it a go.
     
  6. scottmastrocinque

    scottmastrocinque Scott Mastrocinque GT di Razza Pura

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    Ouch. Please be aware that many shops, mine included, charge a fee if they have to deal with the mess of that sealant crud when changing a wheel. I absolutely hate SLIME and that stuff is an awful mess and it takes forever to clean it up inside a wheel.

    I have gotten to the point if the customer has used those stupid balancing beads, I won’t do the tire tor them. I had that stuff fly everywhere in my shop more than once and I almost fell many times because it’s like stepping on thousands of little BB’s everywhere on my concrete floor. It took me an hour of sweeping and vacuuming to get that stuff up and even then, I still felt it under my shoes for a week afterwards. Yuck.

    I hope you get your rim conversion figured out.
     
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  7. Bill Meyer

    Bill Meyer Tuned and Synch'ed GT Contributor

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    Slipping on errant balancing beads reminds me of once mice chewed through a 25 pound bag of #6 lead shot in my shop. The bag was on a shelf under a bench on a concrete floor (naturally) so 20+ pounds of the little devils were EVERYWHERE. That was 9 years ago and I still find 'em. #6 shot is about 200+ pellets to the ounce..........
     
  8. DeadEye

    DeadEye GT Reference GT di Razza Pura

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    I don’t know what the fuss is about getting rid of the tubes, I feel it adds a extra bit of security, over a tubless setup...but that’s just me.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2021
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  9. scottmastrocinque

    scottmastrocinque Scott Mastrocinque GT di Razza Pura

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    I agree wholeheartedly! For the life of me I don't understand it either.

    Not to mention, that simple puncture is then actually repairable.

    I routinely put inner mushroom plugs on otherwise good condition tires that happened to pick up a little screw or nail, slap a brand new tube in them, and cheerfully send my customers down the road, happy as can be.
     
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  10. Bill Meyer

    Bill Meyer Tuned and Synch'ed GT Contributor

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    The odds are very high that an average puncture in a tubeless tire can be repaired in just a few minutes by the side of the road if you carry a small repair kit.

    That same puncture in a tubed tire will most likely require removal of the wheel and replacement of the tube by the side of the road. Which would you prefer???

    A flat in a tube tire will probably ruin your day and may end up needing a tow service.

    Is everybody feelin' lucky?
     
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  11. scottmastrocinque

    scottmastrocinque Scott Mastrocinque GT di Razza Pura

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    Perhaps Bill.

    There are good points on either side of the coin.

    Self repair is always a good thing in my estimation if you know what you are doing and what is repairable and what is not repairable.

    I know where I am, nobody and I mean NOBODY but me and my workshop, is willing to repair a tubeless tire for any customer. I find this to be wholeheartedly ridiculous and just a ploy to sell new tires for the insane money that a motorcycle tire costs nowadays. People flock to me because I am willing to do this service. I do this because in my 55 years on this planet, I have never seen a repaired motorcycle tire come apart or suffer a catastrophic failure. Besides, my liability insurance doesn't forbid me from doing it either.

    Skill and knowledge come into play for this though.

    Personally I'd rather deal with the rare occurrence of a popped inner tube, then trust my critically necessary air pressure to glorified duct tape and some sealant. Hence, my California Vintage uses tubes and will always use tubes.

    Everybody has their own limits though and I certainly respect that.
     
  12. JasonC

    JasonC Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    I'm tracking with you on this one.

    I had my rear tire go flat on my Road Toilet (FLHTK) on the way to a dentist appointment several years ago. I pulled into a nearby bank parking lot, removed the metal shard from the tire, inserted a sticky-rope plug, aired up the tire with a C02 cartridge and was back on the road in a matter of minutes, allowing me to make it to my appointment in time. I could have never replaced a tube in the rear tire on that bike in a parking lot without a lift and vast array of tools.

    Jason
     
  13. Bill Meyer

    Bill Meyer Tuned and Synch'ed GT Contributor

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    When I was a young man I wrenched in a very busy dealer, Hollywood Honda......yes, THAT Hollywood. I'd been riding for many years and had never suffered a puncture but in that shop I repaired at least four flats a week and sometimes twice that many. There were six full time mechanics there and we all fixed flats constantly. The bikes typically came in by pickup or van and we heard plenty of sad stories of nice rides ruined and more than a few dangerous situations. Tubeless MC tires weren't available at that time.

    I was out of the motorcycle life for quite a while. When I returned to the fold I was absolutely thrilled with two major advances, tubeless tires and ABS.

    I truly love the look of an alloy rim and stainless spokes but even though I feel lucky I'll no longer ride around the block on tubes.

    Y'all still feel lucky?
     
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  14. scottmastrocinque

    scottmastrocinque Scott Mastrocinque GT di Razza Pura

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    Just like others, I adore tubeless tires. Yes, they are easy to repair, and I am convinced that I am the only shop in 500 miles that will repair a tubeless tire for a customer. during the season, I get 2 a week consistently.

    My statements were about using glorified duct tape and sealant to “convert” a spoke rim to tubeless. That just seems unusual to me. Granted, people like Todd swear by it but everybody has their own comfort level.

    Maybe I will revisit this topic on the California Vintage this winter. Life is short and I should try new things before I get too damn old to care…

    Oh, I feel fortunate, grateful and blessed which is much more satisfying than lucky.
     
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  15. Bill Meyer

    Bill Meyer Tuned and Synch'ed GT Contributor

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    I hear you on "getting to damned old to care". It's a constant challenge for us dinosaurs, eh?
     
  16. Jonny G

    Jonny G Just got it firing!

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    I’m laughing because this just happened to me about 3 weekends ago in west New Jersey, about 80 miles away from home in Queens, NY. Had to get a tow truck because there was nothing I could do about it on a Sunday when all shops are closed. I’ve been looking into a car wheel specialty shop in my neighborhood to do the conversion but not sure if I’ll be getting the Outex kit and asking them to do it (not to mention I’m not sure they’ll take a motorcycle).

    As a side note, does anyone know whether the spoked wheels on a V7 III Racer have a safety bead? I’ve been reading that’s a requisite in order to do the conversion. I also don’t know whether the stock Sport Demons are capable of being fitted without a tube; I’m basically asking if I can continue to use the stock wheel and tire if I do go through with the conversion. I haven’t seen any definitive answers on that.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2021
  17. Bill Meyer

    Bill Meyer Tuned and Synch'ed GT Contributor

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    Close examination of the stock Pirellis will likely show a tubeless designation. My V7 Stone with alloy wheels probably has the same tires as your Racer sans tubes.

    I can't speak to the rims on your bike but I know of at least one fellow who has done a tubeless conversion on a V7III Special.

    I imagine someone here will chime in on the safety bead issue.

    I only know of one MC wheel shop that does the Outer conversion. Last year when I converted my Royal Enfield I asked a half dozen shops in my state and none of them offered to do it so I did it myself. It's not hard but it's very tedious and time consuming to do it right.
     
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  18. Hippo-Drones

    Hippo-Drones Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Yup Sport Demons are tubeless type tyres, ran them on my Kineo wheels with no issues
     
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  19. Jonny G

    Jonny G Just got it firing!

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    Thanks guys, I appreciate the responses. I’ll update if I get it done.
     
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  20. scottmastrocinque

    scottmastrocinque Scott Mastrocinque GT di Razza Pura

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    The Outex system works but it is not without it’s problems and limitations.

    It can even be used on WM type rims. (Rims without a bead safety strip vs. MT type rims - see below photo).

    HOWEVER there is a very specific method which must be used when mounting the tire, (the tire must be seated with the two sidewalls touching in the center of the rim before inflation) otherwise the tire will push and displace the tape.

    To do this is very tricky and usually requires clamps and slow, careful installation, especially with many of the insanely stiff sidewall tires like Michelins.

    Also, broken spokes requiring nipple replacement, require careful cutting and replacement of the sealing tape and then you have multiple failure points.

    Outex even admits to and makes a sealing liquid for setups that continue to leak.

    This destroys the idea that this system is just a piece of cake to make repairs in the field. It’s not. If you displace the tape from sudden deflation or when you try to re-inflate a tire where the bead has displaced itself from the bead channel, it can ruin the whole setup and cause leaks.

    As I said, it has it’s pros and cons. There is no such thing as a free lunch!

    D720E7F1-E794-4967-B7D8-D2BFE545D7F4.jpeg


    4F63C42C-0F1D-48B6-AD4D-DA4B7E154E8B.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2021
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