RentAGuzzi Motorcycle Rentals & Tours – Los Angeles CA
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Petrol / gas / throttle response

Discussion in 'V7/V85/V9 Chat & Tech' started by gasgas, Apr 8, 2019.

  1. gasgas

    gasgas Tuned and Synch'ed

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    I went to a Guzzi dealer (in England) to try a new V7 and a new V9. I took the V7 out first, it coughed and spluttered and basically didn't go so I took it back and got on the V9. That was fine so I ordered one. I should have asked what was wrong with the V7 but for me the V9 had a more comfortable riding position, and for some reason was £1000 cheaper than the V7.
    A week later I went to collect the V9, got on it and 100 yards down the road it too coughed and spluttered, seemingly only running on one cylinder so with difficulty I turned it round to go back to the dealer. Naturally sod's law pertained and just as I got to the dealer it sprang into life. I thought 'if I go in complaining they will try it and it will run just fine' so I turned round and it went home 46 miles perfectly. Subsequently I rode about 600 miles with no bother, this being over January to March time. Then I got a job, volunteering at Bletchley Park (WW2 Code Breaking centre / center) which is another 46 miles away. I hadn't left the bike in my garage for any great length of time but when I got on it to ride there, again it was only running on one cylinder for half a mile before it started behaving itself. Since then it has run OK, but having said that I have been using it twice a week to do the 90 miles there and back.
    I have two questions I would like to ask:
    1) I notice the owners handbook says don't use petrol with more than 10% Ethanol. Does anyone know what content the cheap supermarket fuels have, and what the established brands have? I'm wondering if it matters which you use, and how long you leave your bike unridden.
    2) The throttle seems to have a sudden switch between idling and GO. In other words it is practically impossible to ride slowly unless you use a touch of throttle and slip the clutch, which can't be doing the clutch any good. For those of you in the Wide Open Spaces of the US and Australia you wouldn't be familiar with our 10 mile long queues on our 3 / 4 lane motorways / freeways / highways. Motorcyclists have to filter slowly between numpties doing their hair / phoning / lipstick / reading maps / drinking beer / listening to their favourite Lithuanian radio station. (I think the Lithuanians and Polish truck drivers seem to be the worst)
    Is this sudden switch between nothing and Vroom Vroom normal?
     
  2. Andrew Joy

    Andrew Joy Just got it firing! GT Site Contributor!

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    In my experience, the V9 a d V7 take a taddd bit more throttle control than other similar bikes (my brother has a triumph). I'm so used to it now, that the V7 that I have seems very very smooth (even smoother than my brothers triumph). It just takes some getting used to. That being said, once I got new GP Meg's Exhaust and Guzzitech fuel remap, it seems way smoother at low speeds (less of the jerking feeling) and the bikes just seems to perform beyond amazingly with how it runs and idles and power delivery, etc, at low speeds and high speeds. Just my two cents
     
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  3. GuzziMoto

    GuzziMoto GT Reference GT Contributor

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    Some basics first.
    Make sure you do not have any more slack in the throttle cable than you need.
    As odd as it sounds, slack in the throttle cable can make the throttle jerky and sudden.
    Do you have a good dealer? Sounds like you don't. I would look for a good dealer to do a proper PDI set up on it.
     
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  4. Sean_Kelly

    Sean_Kelly Tuned and Synch'ed

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    I noticed this when I first bought my bike as well and it always seemed to run really anemic for the first half mile unless the weather was perfect. The bike needs a good minute or so just idling before you take it out for your ride. I've just built it into my routine, set gloves and helmet on the seat, key in ignition, fire it up. Put your helmet and gloves on while it's idling and it should be good to go by the time you get on.

    I believe the owners manual in the states recommends Shell 91. I haven't had issue with other fuels though, Chevron, Valero, etc. all 91 octane.

    This smooths out after the first couple thousand miles. Who knows how much of that is just the rider learning the bike, but either way it gets easier to control throttle at low speed over time.
     
  5. kiwi dave

    kiwi dave GT Reference

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    Are the fuel filters in these models made of plastic like they were for the CARC models? Ethanol was known to cause the fuel filter to swell and eventually fall apart. I can imagine some intermediate symptoms might result if this was going on.
     
  6. gasgas

    gasgas Tuned and Synch'ed

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    Yes, I had thought there was a bit of unnecessary slack in the throttle cable, I will get at it and I presume there is a method of adjusting the throttle body end of the cable. I have been fiddling and building two wheelers since 1966 so I fully expect that to improve the response. I might think about remapping, but I have only done about 850 miles so far. As for 91 octane petrol (gas) I didn't know there was such a thing. That is almost paraffin! I would think that tanks and lawnmowers would run on that. We have only 97 as the regular gas here, but we do have variations on a 'sooperdooper' petrol with more or different additives in it, and it allegedly has no ethanol. I think that the ECU mappers in the design department in the factory work out different maps for different countries according to what gas is available there. I am wondering if the supermarket gasoline is inferior to the named brands such as Shell, BP, Esso, Texaco. The cost of the stuff varies from £5.27 per gallon for the supermarket stuff to £6.75 per gallon for the expensive gold plated stuff from the highway service stations. Normally you only have to deviate off the highway for a mile at most to save £10 on a tank of gas for a car, for the same brand and grade of fuel.
    I am soon going to buy a new Fiat camper van with a 120 litre fuel tank. That, diesel, is going to cost £162 to fill up from empty. I'll have to drive to Luxembourg before I can afford to fill it. Luxembourg is a very cheap country to buy fuel in case you didn't know. Many people divert through there on their way south through Europe.
     
  7. GT-Rx®

    GT-Rx® Administrator Staff Member

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    To all reading this... this is incorrect. There is one global map outside of the reduced power map in countries that restrict power for licensing. Also of note as I chase this repetitively on this Forum, the ECU is not adaptive in any form of the word. It is bad stock, and worse once modified.
     
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  8. gasgas

    gasgas Tuned and Synch'ed

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    Thanks Todd, the reason I thought it must be mapped differently for different parts of the world is that Sean Kelly said he has 91 octane gas. The last time I heard of that was what they called 'pool petrol' in WW2. We don't have anything that low, ours is all 97. I cannot imagine it running on 91, specially as the owner's handbook says do not use any fuel with more than 10% Ethanol. Perhaps Sean's handbook does say 97 and he just didn't remember it.
    By the way when my bike did cough and splutter on the occasion I wrote about, I did leave it idling for a while before setting off. Since then I have ridden it a few times and it has been fine. Each ride has been for a minimum of 48 miles and therefore I am wondering if it was just a bad tank of fuel that was upsetting it.
     
  9. kiwi dave

    kiwi dave GT Reference

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    Different countries have different octane ratings, Do some research to understand the difference.
     
  10. GuzziMoto

    GuzziMoto GT Reference GT Contributor

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    Here 91 to 93 is high octane fuel. We use an average of Research Octane and Motor Octane. Most other countries seem to use only the Research Octane (RON) value. In the UK, 97 (RON) is the same as our 91 octane.

    You should be able to remove the slack in the throttle cable using the adjuster at the throttle on the handlebar. You should not need to touch the throttle bodies.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019
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  11. gasgas

    gasgas Tuned and Synch'ed

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    Thanks GM, you are right. I've been out to the garage in the cold and found the cables are adjustable inside the rubber sleeves at the handlebar end. No more slop! :)
     
  12. GuzziMoto

    GuzziMoto GT Reference GT Contributor

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    If the cables are as I remember, make sure that while the pull cable should have almost no slack in it ( I set it so I can just barely fully turn the handlebars side to side without the idle changing) the push cable (also known as the closing cable) should have a little more slack in it. If the push cable is too tight it can cause the throttle to hang and not properly close when you let go of the throttle.
    If the opening cable is too tight the idle will go up when you turn the handlebars all the way one way or the other. All the pull cable needs is enough slack so the idle doesn't change when you turn the handlebars. The push cable needs more slack.
     
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  13. gasgas

    gasgas Tuned and Synch'ed

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    Thanks GM, I'll do the handlebar test before I ride the 45 miles to work tomorrow. I wound up the pull cable till the revs increased, then slackened it off till idle, and retested it a few times to make sure it returned to idle.
    We have what is called an MOT test (roadworthiness test) here in Blighty, and part of the test is to rev up the engine, let go of the throttle and the engine must return to idle by itself so the return springs must also be in good working order. I guess this is a throwback from the days of sticking carburettor slides.
    I once took my 1950 Sunbeam for the MOT test. It passed all the written requirements but left a pool of oil on the floor while the engine was running. The examiner scratched his chin and drew in breath through his teeth. Hmmm he said. If it was Japanese I would fail it, for putting oil on the back tyre. As it is British, they all came with a compulsory non-optional oil leak from the factory, so I'll pass it.
     
  14. Dinsdale Piranha

    Dinsdale Piranha Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    I disagree entirely. The more idling your engine does, especially cold when it will be running rich, the shorter its overall life will be. Allow 10 to 15 seconds to ensure that the oil is distributed throughout the engine and that oil pressure is up, then ride away. Ride "normally sanely", not revving the guts out of it and not accelerating particularly hard for the first 5 or so Kms. Idling is bad for all internal combustion engines, even when they're hot. It has to happen of course, but you should minimize it as far as practicable.
     
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  15. Dinsdale Piranha

    Dinsdale Piranha Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    Aboso-bloody-lutely!!! The GP megs and Todd's mapping completely transform the V7iii. Find a way to test one that has those 2 things done and you'll want the same.
     
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  16. gasgas

    gasgas Tuned and Synch'ed

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    I'm with Dinsdale on the idling issue. The worst thing about where I live is that I am very close (1/2 mile) from a Motorway (?freeway) which I frequently use. All the traffic on the motorway does 70mph, except of course for the BMWs who regard speed limits as things that apply to other people. So as soon as I get on that road I have to do at least 60, or get mown down. There is no such thing as a gap in the traffic in England. So my engine is still cold when I have to get it up to 60. Some of the things I don't like about the V9 are the lack of a temperature gauge, fuel gauge, rev counter, and the fact that the gear is not shown until you are moving. I much perferred the two gauges on my V7 as in my picture. The V9 has too many unwanted things that can be displayed using software and too few useful things that might need another display. The display it does have isn't as good as it could be: the black lines of the digits could be twice the width they are in order to make them more readable.
     
  17. vagrant

    vagrant High Miler GT Contributor

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    WRONG! On a 2017 yes on a 2015 you will do a face plant if not given 2-3 minutes.
     
  18. GuzziMoto

    GuzziMoto GT Reference GT Contributor

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    While I agree that you want to ride as soon as possible and not let it sit there idling unnecessarily, some model years are notorious cold blooded and need to warm up a little before they will safely and properly work. Some versions are lean and cold blooded. Those versions are not rich and letting them idle will do no harm.
    You can get that addressed with a tune, like from Todd. But stock some model years need to warm up.
     
  19. GuzziMoto

    GuzziMoto GT Reference GT Contributor

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    Double, sorry.
     

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