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Piaggio Group Reveals Strategic Plan for 2009-2012

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by GTM®, Jul 7, 2009.

  1. Roblatt

    Roblatt High Miler

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    Re:piaggio Group Reveals Strategic Plan for 2009-2

    FrostBittenCanadian wrote:

    FBC,

    you did make yourself perfectly clear. Nothing wrong with you eloquence. It's just that we do have varying opinions, for varying reasons. This to me is a beautiful thing. Imagine how boring the world would be if we all wanted the same things, thought the same thoughts, and spoke the same conversations.

    For your reasons you are perfectly correct in want you say. For their own reasons, others are also perfectly correct even though opinions differ and may infact be opposing.

    In the long run run, one of those opinions will prove correct (re Guzzi), and then we can all converse as to who was right and why.

    Really, it's great to see other points of view. I'm not ashamed to say, I have changed my opinion on things because of the points of view put forward by others.

    cheers


    Robert
     
  2. vivo

    vivo Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Re:piaggio Group Reveals Strategic Plan for 2009-2

    Personally I believe it does matter where a product is designed, by whom, where it is built and for what market. There's no reason to expect in a consumer market that labels, marketing and product image count for nothing. Everything we are exposed to considers what image this product is to convey. Anyone who markets anything knows this and every teen age girl that wants a Gucci belt knows they cost two hundred bucks or better for the real thing. It is fact! Why do you think Gucci can get this kind of mark up? Is it luck? Are people just stupid? Maybe it's because the designer knows how to create a certain desire through careful marketing?

    Make Guzzi anywhere other than Italy and it will soon fail. The reason is unless they create a new market for their product, new types of buyers with different expectation then this small marque will have little to offer the people who would likely purchase again. I'm fairly sure Guzzi cannot afford to lose their current customer base... It IS an Italian Motorbike! It feels like an Italian motorcycle and that defines how we react to the product. We expect it to be something special, made with pride, passion, even stubbon Italian stupidity. It's all good cause we believe in the vision. It's not about BEANS. It;s about passion, emotions! It is NOT a necessity, it is a luxury!

    Make TV's in china, who gives a damm... it's not an emotional purchase is it? Buy leather products from Italy because they are well crafted, sensual, or at least well made and designed. They cost more but we THINK they are better. If we THINK It it makes it so ... doesn't it? If it gives more satisfacton, real or imagined is really the same, then it IS better! Better has worth, the cheap is CHEAP. Quality sells itself!

    Now, go ride the bike, cause the bean counters are going to ruin everthing...

    For some reason I don't much care where the Bonneville is made... I did own a SpeedTriple and I was happy it was produced in England. I doubt I would have wanted it at the time if it were made in Asia because it would have felt dishonest.

    Harley knows very well that where they make the bikes IS an issue. They are masters at marketing too. Triumph seems to be moving toward what was mostly the Japanese market, it's a big market I guess but they also are interested in the US market, I believe the new Bonnieville is made for our market?

    So ya... it matter! I wanted an Italian bike and I can tell you this is the first Guzzi I've owned but I would NOT have bought had it not been designed, concieved and built in Italy. I could have gotten a Harley, it IS the real deal as any Harley rider will tell you! It's not a copy of anything at this point, it's geniune. The genuine always is better.

    So build Italian bikes in Italy. Yes, it does matter for this type of market. Build trash cans anywhere...



    Vivo
     
  3. Roblatt

    Roblatt High Miler

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    Re:piaggio Group Reveals Strategic Plan for 2009-2

    I actually agree with you Vivo, but if the money ain't there, it ain't there. Bean counters only ruin egos. They do try saving businesses though. That to me is the starting blocks for meeting the requirement of "passion" if successful.

    Unfortunately, emotion and business decisions rarely work well together.
     
  4. vivo

    vivo Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Re:piaggio Group Reveals Strategic Plan for 2009-2

    Without vision, passion, emotion, creativity... you have nothing worth marketing. You have a substandard product and all the bean guys are pretty much out of a job aren't they unless they want to count acorns in the woods. Listen, I do understand these things have to work as a business model and make profit so a well run and managed business can compete in the real world. Some things do matter. Not everything can be dictated by the dollar, you need to be careful when you do things. There is a COST to constantly looking ONLY at the bottom line.

    I do think MotoGuzzi has a certain charm. That charm, the great story, it's soul was born in the country of Italy. That's the hook! That's what makes it different. You can sell all of that away but it comes with a very high cost! You had better be on the ball because you have just made a lot of people very unhappy if you change all of that and I believe it would be penny wise and dollar foolish. Better to find a way to marry the story and still make building the product competitive. There is no reason to expect it cannot be done. The fisr step is making the decision to save what you have, what is unique and has value. Don't throw the diamond away because it costs more to set it...

    Would I purchase a Vespa made in Asia? Not at the current price! Would I purchase a different Piaggio Scooter made in Asia? Yea, maybe if it was priced properly and was a good value. History makes a difference. But... that's how I think... The Vespa is different I think?

    I have to go put the fake wire wheels on my truck, plastic window shutters, false divided mullions in my windows to match my alumium siding pretending to look like wood while I sit on my pretend plastic wood deck and think how lovely the world seems...I'm thirsty too, some of that imitation lemonaid to go with my Mcdonnald's burger might be nice!

    Live well !

    Vivo
     
  5. GrahamNZ

    GrahamNZ High Miler

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    Re:piaggio Group Reveals Strategic Plan for 2009-2

    Great stuff.

    It seems that passion, loyalty and predjudice at least are alive and well.

    If only those "people" at Guzzi had opted to use decent bearings in the CARC of the new models from the start it would have impressed me more that an Italian bike should have traditional Italian engineering quality. The bearings now in my CARC are NTN brand. Japanese I think?

    Wherever the bits in my bikes come from or where they're made, I know my Guzzi has an Italian soul and my Buell an American one, and warts and all I love them for that. The reason for that soul is primarily due to the designers who made the drawings and wrote the specifications, not to where the individual parts came from.

    In the modern world pretty much everything and everyone are hybrids. I'm born a Kiwi, but my father was a Scot and my mother French. I'm neither of those but a "product" of the NZ environment where I was conceived, born and lived, rather than anything to do with where my genes originated. If a bike is conceived in Italy and has an Italian soul, it is Italian bikr in my opinion. If a Buell is conceived in America and has a frame made in Italy and a supension made in Japan it is still an American bike. etc. etc.
     
  6. vivo

    vivo Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Re:piaggio Group Reveals Strategic Plan for 2009-2

    I can't remember reading a motorcycle article where it wasn't mentioned that the MotoGuzzi birthed on the shores of the beautiful Lake Como... I suppose they can forget all of that and speak strickly about a machine mass produced in Asia but designed in Italy...

    It's a thin story. The bikes would be just as good no doubt. Maybe BiMoto can move to Korea and make affordable motorcycles with conventional ideas so as to be in compliance with current thinking?

    I think we define ourselves somewhat by who our ancestors were. I was born in the US, have three grandparents that had Italian parents and another that was English. I'm not fond of the "melting pot idea", where we all become Americans. That doesn't really happen. We still are creatures that align ourselves with our "clan". I would consider myself Italian because I have some similarities in temperment and thinking that characterize other Italian people but I'm sure not all. My sister says she is American. I think we are a product of those who came before us, she does not.

    I didn't buy an Italian bike because I wanted to buy an Italian product, I've had Japanese, British and American bikes. I understand them as a collection of components, electronics, suspension, brakes, the steel and aluminum can come from many places, that's not concerning. It's not important that every part is crafted in the country of the bike's origin. It's not even a good idea. I think as Brembo makes some pretty good braking components and why reinvent the wheel when you have a great one at your disposal?

    But I did purchse an Italian bike. I fully expect it to be an Italian product, how would it be if I bought Italian wine made in California or South Africa? I could buy my Italian cheese made in Asia, I'm sure it can be made just as tasty... but we don't do these things...

    Some things do matter. China can out produce by millions!!! Lets all run our companies over there and make Italian motorcycles, Harleys amd Movado watches. Do that as forget the label and without the label the perception of uniqueness and value. Make everthing the same! Profits might go up too when someone is paid a dollar a day, such a small amout as to be meaningless...

    Hey what do I know but I do know one thing. I want Italian when I look for it, British when I expect it to be and Japanese when I buy from the big four. What can be clearer than that?

    Vivo
     
  7. Roblatt

    Roblatt High Miler

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    Re:piaggio Group Reveals Strategic Plan for 2009-2

    I happen to agree with all the passionate comments made so far. However, you must be realistic and give a little to retain something.
    In this case Piaggio as a group sees a weak link in Moto Guzzi for whatever reason, so the factory must move for the brand to survive. Better this than lose it all together.

    Don't blame the accountants for these situations. Accountants report the facts and figures in reality and in given scenarios. The board/directors make the decisions based on that information. They in return need to satisfy shareholders who want a return on investment (who here has ever invested money and wanted to lose it?). If the shareholders don't see a return then they sell shares, the share price drops, etc etc etc...

    We have our Guzzis because of what they are (everything mentioned above), but we are a minorty. Piaggio must first make money. Then if things go well, they can indulge us. It's sad, but money rules all.


    Bloody rain. 4 days. So I sit here and in my spare time and converse and learn.


    cheers


    Robert
     
  8. vivo

    vivo Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Re:piaggio Group Reveals Strategic Plan for 2009-2

    Yes, I understand the factory as we know it will close. That is sad.

    I certainly am as ill informed as to what Piaggio feels in regard to Moto Guzzi as the next guy. I do understand they plan to do things the way they see fit, I'll assume it's based fully on realistic expectations and in an effort to grow the customer base. I don't have a problem with that. I do have a problem with companies such as Milwaukee Tools, who proudly lable the exterior box containing their miter saw USA! Problem is the saw is marked made in Taiwan. This is deceptive, it gives consumers the idea that what is in the box was made in America! Why should they need to do this, isn't a saw made in Taiwan worth $649.00 on sale currently at the Home Depot in New Jersey USA? The simple answer is NO. It's no because they know well enough to mark the product box with USA this being done in BOLD letters. The consumer is mislead.

    I suppose everyone has opinions. I am of the opinion that Italian Motorcycles should be manufactered in Italy! I'm not so much interested in what the accounting department of Piaggio thinks.

    Apparently wall street isn't so interested in working American's opinion either. That's ok...


    Vivo
     
  9. Greg Field

    Greg Field Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Re:piaggio Group Reveals Strategic Plan for 2009-2

    Good Lord.

    Take the Milwaukee out of H-D and see what happens. We are going to see what happens when you take the Mandello out of Moto Guzzi, sadly. Cheap scooters for the lot of you. It has already begun. Those of you who do not work with Piaggio every day have no idea. I think you will be happy. I will mourn. So be it.
     

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