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Pinking/Pinging/Detonation

Oldman

Tuned and Synch'ed
GT Contributor
Joined
Dec 2, 2020
Messages
73
Location
Sanlucar de Guadiana Spain
Hello. I have a 2020 E4 V85 now with 18000 km and it has started pinging. The 'nuts rattling in a can' noise happens at 3200 to 4500 rpm when opening the throttle under load. I know that the bike runs better at 4000 rpm but I never had this problem before and I wonder if it is indicative of a fault. What I am asking is : 'Does the V85 have a knock sensor?' and if not, 'How does it work out to advance/retard the ignition?'. I am thinking that whatever this mechanism is, it has gone wrong. I have tried 100 RON fuel and it improved the symptoms a little but only a little. I have searched also on pinging so I know about potential lambda sensor issues and airbox issues which I will look at. I have also changed the plugs. Thanks, Mark
 

john zibell

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GT di Razza Pura
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Oct 28, 2008
Messages
8,873
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Huntsville, AL
Downshift should eliminate the pinging. Also run the highest octane you can buy. Now if you go to the store you will see fueling options. No knock sensor and timing cannot be changed by the owner, only the improved maps from the store.
 

scottmastrocinque

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GT di Razza Pura
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Jun 26, 2011
Messages
3,165
Location
Findlay, Ohio
Simple stuff…

New spark plugs + valve adjustment.

If this doesn’t resolve it, look for a fuel system cleaner with polyetheramine in it. Here in the USA, Gumout Total System has this chemical. It is an excellent organic solvent for removing carbon.

If you cannot locate something like this in Spain, I would use very small amounts (1 ml or less) of distilled water allowed into the intake vacuum port of the running engine, in order to facilitate de-carbonizing the piston crowns as you may have a hot spot of carbon causing pre-detonation (what you call pinging).

Pinging is not harmless but in fact is seriously damaging to the engine.

It is the sound of the early ignition of the charge, which is expanding and slamming into the rising piston. It causes bad damage over time.

At a minimum, if you hear this sound while riding, back off the throttle a little until it subsides. Avoid pinging always.
 
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Oldman

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Dec 2, 2020
Messages
73
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Sanlucar de Guadiana Spain
Thanks for the replies. As to oil, I have just completed a three week trip to Albania and monitored the oil level all the time so the answer is 300ml in 5,500 km. I can only get 5% ethanol, 95 or 98 RON. When travelling sometimes 100 RON. The detonation was before and after new plugs. The tappets were last checked 8000 km back, I will check again. I will try some cleaner, I understand the carbon issue. Meanwhile I have uploaded a video (only way I could record the sound) of the noise. Please remember I was deliberately trying to capture the sound, I don't normally just randomnly open the throttle like this! Also I have a V7iii, it runs on same fuel, same hot place, no pinking.
 

scottmastrocinque

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That's detonation for sure. I suspect that your mixture is lean. Like I said, check and adjust the valves properly. It's time. Also, try and clean up carbon deposit on the piston crown with either a chemical or distilled water as I told you about.

The other thing to check is get some starting fluid and spray it all around the intake manifold while the bike is running. If you experience either an increase or decrease in idle speed from this, you have a vacuum leak which would contribute to a lean condition and allow detonation.
 
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Oldman

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Dec 2, 2020
Messages
73
Location
Sanlucar de Guadiana Spain
That's detonation for sure. I suspect that your mixture is lean. Like I said, check and adjust the valves properly. It's time. Also, try and clean up carbon deposit on the piston crown with either a chemical or distilled water as I told you about.

The other thing to check is get some starting fluid and spray it all around the intake manifold while the bike is running. If you experience either an increase or decrease in idle speed from this, you have a vacuum leak which would contribute to a lean condition and allow detonation.
Thanks! By starting fluid you mean the ketone stuff that is often used to help old diesel engines start?
 
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Vagrant

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Aug 2, 2009
Messages
1,286
Location
Gainesville, Ga. or Green Valley Az.
See the report from KGLM who seems to have disappeared from here. Mine had a similar issue with rings and lost power and the ability to accelerate under full throttle. Yours is using more oil than I'd want and about the same as mine was. However, mine only pinged a couple of times while leaving a stop sigh in 85+ heat then quit once broken in. The dealer said it was totally caked up with carbon.
Put this in your memory bank. Not sure if it's your issue, but a place to go if the tips from Scott don't work.
 

Moto-Uno

High Miler
Joined
Aug 7, 2016
Messages
579
Location
Burnaby,B.C
I'm a bit more used to spraying WD-40 around the intake areas looking for leaks . Sure wouldn't want
to discover I had an arcing plug cap or lead with the quick-start , but maybe I'm just a worry wart :) . Peter
 

Oldman

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Dec 2, 2020
Messages
73
Location
Sanlucar de Guadiana Spain
Well thank you all. I now know much more than I did and it is clear how I should proceed. May I add two things? Firstly I now find out there was a valve recall on the V85, was this very limited as I can find out almost nothing about it. Secondly I have read the errors on the ECU and I have two, both lambda flow errors, both left cylinder. So, can a lambda sensor error lead to pinking or is it throwing an error because of pinking?
 

scottmastrocinque

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If you have a bad λ sensor, then the current fueling information is not making it back to the ECU when the motorcycle is supposed to be functioning in closed loop mode.

What would be happening is the ECU will just run with default table values and not get any dynamic information to pass back to the ECU for any fueling / timing adjustments.

I think you may have found your problem.
 

scottmastrocinque

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GT di Razza Pura
Joined
Jun 26, 2011
Messages
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Location
Findlay, Ohio
I wouldn’t replace the sensor until I cleared the fault and then see if it returned again. You might want to duplicate the error at least once or twice before you start buying parts.

λ sensors are expensive!

👌👍🙏
 
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