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Please, tell me I don't have to do it...

Balazs Farkas

Just got it firing!
Joined
Feb 5, 2018
Messages
11
Location
Luxembourg
Hi everyone,
So, I have a 2002 Nevada Club (ZGULK) with a busted alternator. Tried to remove it by putting the bike in gear, stomping on the rear brake and twisting on the nut, but it would not bulge. I suppose, I have to lock the flywheel to be able to remove the darn thing. Is there a way to do so through the starter engine port, or I need to remove the gearbox...and, by proxy, the whole block from the bike first?
If such scenario is inevitable, any suggestions (or existing forum threads) that might save me a hell lot of headache?
Thanks in advance!
B
 

john zibell

Moderator
Staff member
GT di Razza Pura
Joined
Oct 28, 2008
Messages
8,683
Location
Huntsville, AL
Remove front wheel and fender then use an impact wrench. Preferably air powered impact wrench but an electric one might take it.
 

Balazs Farkas

Just got it firing!
Joined
Feb 5, 2018
Messages
11
Location
Luxembourg
Thanks guys! Unfortunately I'm a moron whose insanity runs deeper than his pocket, so no impact wrench just yet. Anyway, I decided to give the clutch some TLC too so my mind is set to throw a Hail Mary and pick my ride apart after all.
One more question I would like to place: a small piece of insulation broke off from the stator and grooved up the alternator pretty bad. It still works, but the stator has to go, for obvious safety reasons. What do you suggest? Should I replace the alternator too, or it matters little how it looks as long as the magnets are fine?
 

Godfrey

High Miler
GT Famiglia
Joined
Oct 1, 2017
Messages
869
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
You don't have to buy an impact wrench. They're expensive tools and not used all that often. You can rent them easily at nearly any tool rental place, along with the impact rated socket you need to do the job safely.

Seriously: you're most likely going to need to use one anyway to get that rotor off the engine.

Regards the rotor, if the damage has chewed it up a lot, it needs to be inspected carefully. If the magnets get loose while the engine's running, all they're going to do is destroy the new stator you bought. If not, and if the rotor spins without touching the stator, and isn't so badly chewed up that the magnets have lost their strength, and if measuring the amperage output indicates that the output is to spec, sure: continue using it. There are a lot of conditions there, of course, so if you're unsure it's always wisest to replace a potentially damaged part that runs at engine speed.
 

john zibell

Moderator
Staff member
GT di Razza Pura
Joined
Oct 28, 2008
Messages
8,683
Location
Huntsville, AL
I checked the parts break out for your bike. The stator and rotor are a single part number. You get both if you order new. If you can find a good used stator, so long as no part of the rotor contacts the stator you should be OK.
 

Balazs Farkas

Just got it firing!
Joined
Feb 5, 2018
Messages
11
Location
Luxembourg
Just to give perspective, the rotor looks like the piston of a two stroke Vespa after a few years of neglect. I noticed the rotor is from a Ducatti, so I presume it should not be that difficult to find a new one. Also, the stator seems to be the same as a Monster's, so again, there are some options.
Anyway, thanks for all the help! I made my notes for now, but will be back with a few bruised fingers and a psychic breakdown right after I - eventually - have encountered some new issues...
 

john zibell

Moderator
Staff member
GT di Razza Pura
Joined
Oct 28, 2008
Messages
8,683
Location
Huntsville, AL
Just to give perspective, the rotor looks like the piston of a two stroke Vespa after a few years of neglect. I noticed the rotor is from a Ducatti, so I presume it should not be that difficult to find a new one. Also, the stator seems to be the same as a Monster's, so again, there are some options.
Anyway, thanks for all the help! I made my notes for now, but will be back with a few bruised fingers and a psychic breakdown right after I - eventually - have encountered some new issues...


Your bike uses a Guzzi part number 37712405. If you order that part number as I stated earlier, you get the stator and rotor. You won't have to try and match parts.
 

Balazs Farkas

Just got it firing!
Joined
Feb 5, 2018
Messages
11
Location
Luxembourg
Hey everyone,
I have a new question: digging myself through some videos, I saw that there is a Y-shaped tool to center the clutch before one reinstalls the gear on the flywheel. I haven't dared to pick apart the clutch yet, since I lack that tool right now. Is it crucial to have it? If so, might there be a clever alternative?
Thanks in advance!
 

john zibell

Moderator
Staff member
GT di Razza Pura
Joined
Oct 28, 2008
Messages
8,683
Location
Huntsville, AL
A centering tool is critical to assembling the gearbox to the engine. I only know of the factory special tool and no work around if you don't have one.
 

Balazs Farkas

Just got it firing!
Joined
Feb 5, 2018
Messages
11
Location
Luxembourg
Hi guys,
Thanks for all the help!
So, I took out the block with the help of a cheap jack from amazon and some forward planning. Was getting quite happy with how things were coming together, especially since the nut holding the generator's rotor came off without much effort after I blocked the flywheel with the designated tool. Unfortunately, the rotor still wouldn't slide off the crank as it "should". Am I missing something? I obviously don't want to go too hamfisted around the crank...
Of note, how necessary is it to get my hands on the oil seal punches? Can I just use an upside down beer bottle or something instead? I know I'm cheap, but this project is getting already a lot more expensive then I hoped it would be. Must cut corners where I can.
Thanks!
 

V700Steve

GT Reference
GT di Razza Pura
Joined
Dec 8, 2008
Messages
1,247
Location
Atlanta area, GA
Use a bit of penetrating oil on the front, then a rubber mallet w/slight rap to break free. For installing the seals just use an appropriate size socket.
 

Balazs Farkas

Just got it firing!
Joined
Feb 5, 2018
Messages
11
Location
Luxembourg
Thanks! It popped off like a charm! Still wonder why it was stuck the first place...
Anyway, a new thing came up: I bought a new clutch from Newfren, but it is noticably smaller than the one I had in the bike (an AP). The disk is thinner with about 0.2 mm and the center part of the disk is different too. I'm not sure if this would matter or not. Would be quite a pain to get everything ready to roll only to realize my clutch doesn't engage anymore... What is the difference between AP and Newfren, except for size?
Also, I forgot to mark the ringgear/starter gear when I picked it off from the flywheel. Just to be sure, do I remember well it has to be aligned to TDC left cylinder with the marker beside the two small notches aiming exactly at 12 o'clock?
Cheers!
 

Balazs Farkas

Just got it firing!
Joined
Feb 5, 2018
Messages
11
Location
Luxembourg
Hi guys,
Just to pay back something for your help, here is my small report after I managed to make my ride roll again:

1) Dropping the engine on my own wasn't that hard, given a good jack that can support the weight of the bike. Following a certain sequence with the removal of the screws (the front 4 first, then the 2 in the back, last the long one passing above the gearbox) meant that everything came apart nicely. Mind, something that was a bit of a pickle is that once you remove the frame, the block has a different weight distribution. Luckily I left the main stand out while still supporting the bike, so I didn't literally drop the block...

2) Everything inside was stock (2002, 69k km-s), i.e. the clutch, the timing chain and the tensioner. Nothing was beyond redemption, all had at least another good 10k in them. I was really amazed how long lasting the guts of my ride turned out to be!

3) I got a clutch centering tool (the one proposed by Guzzi), which was useless: the center notch was a lot smaller than the inner ring of the clutch, so, in the end, I simply had to eye-ball the centering on the flywheel. It was perfectly doable, mind it took a bit of trial and error (with the screws not tightened strongly, the clutch can be gently moved around in the flywheel). Also, the newer clutch disks are a lot smaller than the AP originals. They work nicely, but make the clutch even rougher than before.

4) My suggestion: always keep all bolts and screws in the block while working on it! Partly because it will make them less likely to get lost, plus they can protect the block in case of "accidents". Mine fell off from the jack, luckily had to only replace one bent bolt after!

5) Putting the engine back is, again, doable solo, mind, it is a real pain. The block needs to be at a certain height and frame has to be exactly perpendicular to the block otherwise it never goes to its place. Also, the frame only slides on the gearbox from the back, so I had to jiggle it around until it was more "behind" compared where it was supposed to be. Then, moving it ahead, it all slid to place. Putting the screws back went on reverse to how they were removed.

6) For very rough carb tuning, I used my ears: when the throttle is pulled, there should be one "clank" in both carbs at the same time. For the mix screw, I played with it until there was no backfiring on either cylinders. I used Carbtune II next to add some more tuning and set the bike to ridable condition. For very fine tuning, I used spark plug coloring and my ass. Once I was out on the field, it was easy to feel the bike jerking to one direction or the other, depending on which side was working harder. Mind, the base revolution of the bike increases once the engine is warm so keep a spare screwdriver on you until all is set perfectly up!

Well, that's all. I had fun!
B
 

Balazs Farkas

Just got it firing!
Joined
Feb 5, 2018
Messages
11
Location
Luxembourg
Yes, it seems so, at least I don't experience any anomalies (battery charge and ignition is steady). Also, with the starter motor and the carbs cleaned up, the bike starts like a charm! :)
 
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