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Rear drive oil seal?

It looks like there is more than enough room to use a pick on the seal or small self tappers and then pull out the seal and gently press in the new one. I think the advice you have received is great and also very timely to help you get through this. Good luck!
 
I have been away from home for a week so finally an update on the diff or rather the 'bevel drive' seal as I was told it should be called in no uncertain terms by a certain Mr. Roper (I can hear Scottsmastrocinque lauhghing from here as he seems to know him quite well). Firstly if I had known then what I know now I would not have tried it at all, as they say do not try this at home. Having received the new seal there is no way it can be replaced with the cover in place as at least two thirds of it is hidden behind the cover. I was told that maybe some of the clearance holes in the cover, where the bolts attaching it pass through, may be threaded and if so it could be pushed off using larger bolts threaded into those holes. Sure enough there were but it was still a struggle to get it to move and in the process the bolts started to stuff up the threads behind, as soon as I got about an eighth inch gap I pushed some small flat pieces of steel in between the bolt and drive housing to protect it. Anyway long story short I finally managed to get it off and then I found out why it was so tight, it came out with the whole internals of the drive still attached and still no way to get to the seal without pulling it all apart, way above my pay grade. Talking to the aforementioned Mr. Roper, one of just a few Guzzi gurus in Oz, apparently when the first 1400's came out the bevel drive was classed as a non serviceable unit and there is nothing about it in the early manuals apart from the parts diagram, that was until there were a few seal failures and following many requests the maintenance procedure was added in the later manual
SERVICE STATION MANUAL B043157....Moto Guzzi California 1400 Euro 3 - Euro 4, the bevel drive section starts at page 367. I'm not sure if the link will work if I try and post it here but it may be available online somewhere if needed.
Turns out the threaded holes in the cover are not there to aid in it's removal after all and as to the reason they are there I have no idea. The correct way involves heating the casing and dropping the whole thing on the bench a few times (yes really) but this post is already getting to long so I won't go into detail. Scottsmastrocinque, Peter (Roper) had a second hand drive that he kindly offered to freight to me so I could use that while I send my unit to him to repair, which he did and mine is on the way to him as I type. Seeing as how the only contact we have had is on the phone or via email and we are 1500kms apart and he paid the freight cost to me up front he is another true Guzzisti gentleman. He has never had one of these apart so I think he is looking forward to the challenge. Thanks to all that offered advice, we live and learn.
The seal concerned is behind the crown wheel in pic 1 🙂
 

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Wow, what an ordeal!

I cannot believe MG produced a: bevel-drive/final-drive/transmission/differential that is considered "non serviceable". That seems like lazy engineering to me.

Jason
 
…I have not done this on a 1400 but many others…

…I’m sure you do not have the tools or know how to accomplish this.

I cannot help you any further. You are way too headstrong in your path for me and I will not try and save you from yourself any more.

Good luck…

I’m fairly certain I tried several times to tell you this was outside your skill set but you would not listen…

Now, I’m saddened to learn of this design disaster by Moto Guzzi but once again, I am not completely surprised by this fact. This is exactly why I do not like any of the 1400/V7/V85/V9 platforms for all sorts of really stupid design issues like this. It’s unfortunate.

I am very grateful for this information you have received and communicated, so THANK YOU!

Just yesterday, I moved my 5 Moto Guzzi motorcycles from my workshop to my home garage, so I had them closer to use and more room in my workshop as I am overloaded from my bout with Covid in July.

I again realized how far superior they all are in every regard, to any of the 1400/V7/V85/V9 platforms, IN MY OPINION.

As I said early on in this thread above, I have never done this on a 1400. I have done this on many BMW’s and others metric bikes. It’s interesting that Pete has never done one of these either. I would have bet money that he had done at least a few!

Pete Roper was once a member here but Pete and Todd here are not friends any longer. It’s very complicated.

I’ve never met the man but I have interacted with him very occasionally in the forum long ago.

My only observation of the man is from photos he has taken where his shop is a real unbelievable disaster area and his work area bench is always like a bomb went off.

I’ve worked briefly with mechanics like him and I tell you that 100% we are not compatible in that regard.

I work like a surgeon on motorcycles. I am obsessive about cleanliness and organization and I have never torn apart anything and put it back together again, and had “leftover” nuts, bolts, washers, etc. I’m not saying that Pete is like that however It has been my experience that mechanics who work sloppy like that, usually have this issue frequently. I could be wrong but I know what I can and cannot abide by, and that type of work is just out of bounds to me.

He is unusual to me but then again, I have admitted many times that there is something very unusual that occurs between Australians and I and we seem to clash. It must be a social custom thing.

Things Australians say and do perplex me more so than I already struggle with non-verbal communication issues.

Regardless, I’m very happy my suggestion worked out for you.

I had the distinct impression that this was more than you were capable of undertaking but you didn’t take my hints.

Good, bad, or indifferent, Pete seems to be the de facto “Moto Guzzi goto guy” down under, so there you go. I am sure you will get it sorted out with him down there in Australia.

Best wishes.

👌👍🙏

PS: Pete doesn’t speak Italian. I do.

The components are actually named in Italian as

MOTORE (engine),

SCATOLA DEL CAMBIO (gearbox),

TRASMISSIONE, (transmission).

“Bevel drive” is actually a British term used commonly for BMW final drives and Ducati bevel gear driven valves. I’ve even heard the term “Bevel Box” used before in the UK.

In a manner of speaking, Pete is correct in his use of the English word “bevel” as it looks like this and appears to match this particular Moto Guzzi design of pressed together assembly,

473BC5F5 814B 4081 A344 8BA968F033AB


while the BMW crown ring and pinion looks different as it is traditionally bolted or riveted in place.

BF7E3DA0 74BC 4214 B899 666DE30B79C0



Semantics are funny things…
 
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I’m fairly certain I tried several times to tell you this was outside your skill set but you would not listen…

Now, I’m saddened to learn of this design disaster by Moto Guzzi but once again, I am not completely surprised by this fact. This is exactly why I do not like any of the 1400/V7/V85/V9 platforms for all sorts of really stupid design issues like this. It’s unfortunate.

I am very grateful for this information you have received and communicated, so THANK YOU!

Just yesterday, I moved my 5 Moto Guzzi motorcycles from my workshop to my home garage, so I had them closer to use and more room in my workshop as I am overloaded from my bout with Covid in July.

I again realized how far superior they all are in every regard, to any of the 1400/V7/V85/V9 platforms, IN MY OPINION.

As I said early on in this thread above, I have never done this on a 1400. I have done this on many BMW’s and others metric bikes. It’s interesting that Pete has never done one of these either. I would have bet money that he had done at least a few!

Pete Roper was once a member here but Pete and Todd here are not friends any longer. It’s very complicated.

I’ve never met the man but I have interacted with him very occasionally in the forum long ago.

My only observation of the man is from photos he has taken where his shop is a real unbelievable disaster area and his work area bench is always like a bomb went off.

I’ve worked briefly with mechanics like him and I tell you that 100% we are not compatible in that regard.

I work like a surgeon on motorcycles. I am obsessive about cleanliness and organization and I have never torn apart anything and put it back together again, and had “leftover” nuts, bolts, washers, etc. I’m not saying that Pete is like that however It has been my experience that mechanics who work sloppy like that, usually have this issue frequently. I could be wrong but I know what I can and cannot abide by, and that type of work is just out of bounds to me.

He is unusual to me but then again, I have admitted many times that there is something very unusual that occurs between Australians and I and we seem to clash. It must be a social custom thing.

Things Australians say and do perplex me more so than I already struggle with non-verbal communication issues.

Regardless, I’m very happy my suggestion worked out for you.

I had the distinct impression that this was more than you were capable of undertaking but you didn’t take my hints.

Good, bad, or indifferent, Pete seems to be the de facto “Moto Guzzi goto guy” down under, so there you go. I am sure you will get it sorted out with him down there in Australia.

Best wishes.

👌👍🙏

PS: Pete doesn’t speak Italian. I do.

The components are actually named in Italian as

MOTORE (engine),

SCATOLA DEL CAMBIO (gearbox),

TRASMISSIONE, (transmission).

“Bevel drive” is actually a British term used commonly for BMW final drives and Ducati bevel gear driven valves. I’ve even heard the term “Bevel Box” used before in the UK.

In a manner of speaking, Pete is correct in his use of the English word “bevel” as it looks like this and appears to match this particular Moto Guzzi design of pressed together assembly,

View attachment 26250


while the BMW crown ring and pinion looks different as it is traditionally bolted or riveted in place.

View attachment 26252



Semantics are funny things…
The problem was that I was asking if anyone had removed that backing plate or not and as you said you have not, if you had said yes I have removed one and don't do it because everything will still be attached, that would have been good enough for me and I would have left it alone. As it was I was flying completely blind and couldn't find anyone that had actually removed one before, therefore I had to do the best I could with what I had. I have managed to remove it with no harm done but there is no way I would try to go any further with it. I was refered to Peter by a couple of people on a another Guzzi forum.
 
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Wow, what an ordeal!

I cannot believe MG produced a: bevel-drive/final-drive/transmission/differential that is considered "non serviceable". That seems like lazy engineering to me.

Jason
A larger hole in the plate or a small removable section would have made life a whole lot easier but then designers never think about maintenance.
 
I was refered to Peter by a couple of people on a another Guzzi forum.

That’s good but I distinctly remember sending you towards him. 😄

I’m not the ogre some would make me out to be. 🙂

You’re in Australia. Call Pete Roper in Bungedore at Moda Moto. I’m sure he’s done several of these on 1400’s

A 2 minute phone call will get you what you need.

I’m looking forward to reviewing the manual and I’ll bet those threaded holes are indeed designed to allow you to insert bolts and “pop or pull” the assembly apart, but that you are supposed to heat it first to loosen everything up.

Rarely, if ever, have I seen a design specification by the designing engineer, that requires “dropping the whole thing on the bench a few times” or other such behavior! 😆😆😆

Lastly, there is no such thing as a “long” post.

There are only impatient readers.

I love longer detailed writings. They are a source of much information.

Not everything can be adequately communicated in 3 sentences or less, especially technical information.

Again, good luck!

Pete will get you right as rain I’m sure.

Someday I’d like to actually meet the man.
 
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That’s good but I distinctly remember sending you towards him. 😄

I’m not the ogre some would make me out to be. 🙂



I’m looking forward to reviewing the manual and I’ll bet those threaded holes are indeed designed to allow you to insert bolts and “pop or pull” the assembly apart, but that you are supposed to heat it first to loosen everything up.

Rarely, if ever, have I seen a design specification by the designing engineer, that requires “dropping the whole thing on the bench a few times” or other such behavior! 😆😆😆

Lastly, there is no such thing as a “long” post.

There are only impatient readers.

I love longer detailed writings. They are a source of much information.

Not everything can be adequately communicated in 3 sentences or less, especially technical information.

Again, good luck!

Pete will get you right as rain I’m sure.

Someday I’d like to actually meet the man.
I had sent an email to Peter before you mentioned him, he had already made an offer to help through another member of the forum I posted on. Not that it matters really.
 
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