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Recent Update Nov2012: 74 850T
- Thread starter khudson24
- Start date
Mc Tool
Cruisin' Guzzisti
Re: UPDATE: 74 850T Running Issue
As you can see here ( hopefully ) I have fitted my unit to the frame and I made brackets to mount the coils and the voltage reg. The install instructions ( which I still have if you want a preview , you could PM me your e-mail addy and I will send ..... I cant figure out how to post a document so that it can be read :geek: not ! ) are really quite good as long as you have a basic understanding of what your trying to do . I found it a bit fiddly ( adjust and test ..... adjust and test ......) but simple enough .You WILL need a timing light, and if you are convinced that you have everything right ( spark an all ) and it still dont go .... try swapping the plug leads over.
Tewrecks , your mention of low resistance primary's is sure right , my ducati paso ( weber marelli digiplex ignition ) coils have only 0.35 ohms primary res.
I guess the bit in all this that grates me is that the dyna blurb states that the dyna111 unit will run standard ( 3.5ohm ) coils .... and it plainly wont ( there is a bit of paper in the box that you only get to see AFTER you have bought and recieved the unit saying that it needs 5 ohm coils ) and you are likely to fry the unit if you are unaware because it will run for long enough to think everything is okey dokey.
With the dyna when you turn the key off both pots will fire, not noticable if the engine is running when you turn off , but if you ( oh just for the hell of it ) turn kill switch to off and then crank engine , twisting throttle , switch kill switch to on ..... wait till the wife ( or the cat .... that WAS funny ) is behind the bike and then turn key off ...... it will either chuff , sneeze or .. boomboom :evil: :lol: :lol: .... good outside the bank too
As you can see here ( hopefully ) I have fitted my unit to the frame and I made brackets to mount the coils and the voltage reg. The install instructions ( which I still have if you want a preview , you could PM me your e-mail addy and I will send ..... I cant figure out how to post a document so that it can be read :geek: not ! ) are really quite good as long as you have a basic understanding of what your trying to do . I found it a bit fiddly ( adjust and test ..... adjust and test ......) but simple enough .You WILL need a timing light, and if you are convinced that you have everything right ( spark an all ) and it still dont go .... try swapping the plug leads over.
Tewrecks , your mention of low resistance primary's is sure right , my ducati paso ( weber marelli digiplex ignition ) coils have only 0.35 ohms primary res.
I guess the bit in all this that grates me is that the dyna blurb states that the dyna111 unit will run standard ( 3.5ohm ) coils .... and it plainly wont ( there is a bit of paper in the box that you only get to see AFTER you have bought and recieved the unit saying that it needs 5 ohm coils ) and you are likely to fry the unit if you are unaware because it will run for long enough to think everything is okey dokey.
With the dyna when you turn the key off both pots will fire, not noticable if the engine is running when you turn off , but if you ( oh just for the hell of it ) turn kill switch to off and then crank engine , twisting throttle , switch kill switch to on ..... wait till the wife ( or the cat .... that WAS funny ) is behind the bike and then turn key off ...... it will either chuff , sneeze or .. boomboom :evil: :lol: :lol: .... good outside the bank too
khudson24
Tuned and Synch'ed
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2011
- Messages
- 28
Re: UPDATE: 74 850T Running Issue
MC Tool - Thanks for the pics. That helps. that's exactly what happened - I had the 3.5 coils in, thought everything was grand and burn she goes. I have seen the dyna instructions, the only thing they leave out on the diagram is which terminal on the coil is positive. Assuming I am hooking this up right, the white and the jumper wire go the right coil positive and the red from the dyna and the other end of the jumper go to the left coil positive. The green would be negative and the black ground to engine block. Sound right?
MC Tool - Thanks for the pics. That helps. that's exactly what happened - I had the 3.5 coils in, thought everything was grand and burn she goes. I have seen the dyna instructions, the only thing they leave out on the diagram is which terminal on the coil is positive. Assuming I am hooking this up right, the white and the jumper wire go the right coil positive and the red from the dyna and the other end of the jumper go to the left coil positive. The green would be negative and the black ground to engine block. Sound right?
Mc Tool
Cruisin' Guzzisti
Re: UPDATE: 74 850T Running Issue
Ya just gotta watch coz there are 3 red wires , one is the power feed to the unit the another is the right coil neg and the power feed to the dizzy . From memory they had different terminals on em , the dizzy one is easy ( now where have I heard that before ..... she was too
) as its in its own cable with the other 2 wires that go to the dizzy
Ya just gotta watch coz there are 3 red wires , one is the power feed to the unit the another is the right coil neg and the power feed to the dizzy . From memory they had different terminals on em , the dizzy one is easy ( now where have I heard that before ..... she was too
) as its in its own cable with the other 2 wires that go to the dizzy
manxkipper
Just got it firing!
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2012
- Messages
- 23
Re: UPDATE: 74 850T Running Issue
Had the same problem with a Boyer on my Norton 650. Blew the ignition unit with 3 Ohm coils despite their instructions saying 3 is an ok resistance. Using a 4.5 dual coil with a new Boyer unit - seems ok now. My Rita on the LM2 has the lucas coils. Haven't tested their resistance yet - should do it I expect.
Had the same problem with a Boyer on my Norton 650. Blew the ignition unit with 3 Ohm coils despite their instructions saying 3 is an ok resistance. Using a 4.5 dual coil with a new Boyer unit - seems ok now. My Rita on the LM2 has the lucas coils. Haven't tested their resistance yet - should do it I expect.
khudson24
Tuned and Synch'ed
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2011
- Messages
- 28
Re: UPDATE: 74 850T Running Issue
Sorry guys. I have been so busy with work lately that I haven't had a chance to finish and update you. This past weekend I finally installed the new coils and dyna III. Haven't started her up because the tank and carbs are off. This weekend I hope to finish up, including the timing.
Sorry guys. I have been so busy with work lately that I haven't had a chance to finish and update you. This past weekend I finally installed the new coils and dyna III. Haven't started her up because the tank and carbs are off. This weekend I hope to finish up, including the timing.
khudson24
Tuned and Synch'ed
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2011
- Messages
- 28
Finally - new dyna III, new Dyna Coils (5 Ohm), new spark plugs (gaps of .6mm), freshly charged battery & all fuses good... Still a no go... 
The ignition on with fuel tap on, press starter button and hear starter trying to turn bike over, but not firing up.
Took off the old dyna unit: unscrew cover of contact breaker, lift out old "plate" with wires and put new one in. Engine was on rotated on "D" prior. Once this new plate was in, rotated and the marks near perfect as they crossed the plate contacts for each right and left cycle (engine right side "D" passed the contacts on the left side of the plate in the contact breaker). Black ground wire attached to rear of gearbox bolt.
Wires - green to left coil ground, red wire with spliced end and blue bridge wire to positive side of left coil. The right coil has red to ground and blue bridge wire and white from ignition to positive on this coil. The black, red & white wires with male ends connect into the same color wires from the "plate" set in the contact breaker.
Gas lines are clean and I am getting fuel. Can smell it. Carbs completely rebuilt and synched. Perhaps no spark still? What else can it be? Could the regulator, rectifier & alternator be affected by the bike dying with the previous coils (3 ohm) malfunction? What else can it be? Where should I go from here?
BTW -Tested spark plugs against engine chassis - no spark when cranking the engine. I am going to make sure the spark plug wires are inserted properly and to pulled out loose when coils were installed. How would I test the coils?
HELP...
The ignition on with fuel tap on, press starter button and hear starter trying to turn bike over, but not firing up.
Took off the old dyna unit: unscrew cover of contact breaker, lift out old "plate" with wires and put new one in. Engine was on rotated on "D" prior. Once this new plate was in, rotated and the marks near perfect as they crossed the plate contacts for each right and left cycle (engine right side "D" passed the contacts on the left side of the plate in the contact breaker). Black ground wire attached to rear of gearbox bolt.
Wires - green to left coil ground, red wire with spliced end and blue bridge wire to positive side of left coil. The right coil has red to ground and blue bridge wire and white from ignition to positive on this coil. The black, red & white wires with male ends connect into the same color wires from the "plate" set in the contact breaker.
Gas lines are clean and I am getting fuel. Can smell it. Carbs completely rebuilt and synched. Perhaps no spark still? What else can it be? Could the regulator, rectifier & alternator be affected by the bike dying with the previous coils (3 ohm) malfunction? What else can it be? Where should I go from here?
BTW -Tested spark plugs against engine chassis - no spark when cranking the engine. I am going to make sure the spark plug wires are inserted properly and to pulled out loose when coils were installed. How would I test the coils?
HELP...
Definately a spark issue. Put everything back as it should be. Make sure with the key on, 12 volts is present at the supply side of each coil. If present, take the trigger lead off form each coil. Remove the plugs from the engine, insert them into the plug leads and ground the plug to the engine. Briefly provide a ground to the trigger side of a coil then remove the ground. This spark plug should fire when you remove the ground. If this occurs, then work on the timing part of the system. If not, then it may be coil, or there isn't enough current to the coils even though voltage is present.
One thing to remember when chasing a fault, don't make a bunch of changes at one time. Just change one thing at a time and test.
One thing to remember when chasing a fault, don't make a bunch of changes at one time. Just change one thing at a time and test.
khudson24
Tuned and Synch'ed
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2011
- Messages
- 28
Thanks John. I did pull the coils back out and tested them and verified wire connections again - each was approx. 4.7 ohms. I tested the SP cables - I got no reading at first. The brass connectors perhaps was not making good contact inside the coil and the bare wire of the cable. They were a pain to remove from the coil itself so I have to get new connectors. Shoved on probe into the cable sheathing to contact the wire. The other probe was touching the contact in the SP boot. Both read approx. 5 ohms. Everything seems good but I am thinking the actual cable was not getting the juice to the SP itself originally before I pulled it out. Off tomorrow to get new connectors or even SP wires. If this doesn't work then I will proceed with John's suggestion above. Let's hope its this simple! :lol:
khudson24
Tuned and Synch'ed
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2011
- Messages
- 28
Ok. Figured it out with John's help. The timing was off. I made sure the RH was at the D in the inspection window on the flywheel in the compression stroke (thumb over Sp hole). Had to rearrange the dizzy all over again. Now the D on the compression stroke crosses the contacts line at the same time on the inward side, and the S crosses the contacts line on the outward side. My guess is that is wasn't on the compression stroke on the D was in the inspection hole previously when I installed the new dyna III. When I pulled the dizzy out, gas came out as well. It is probably in my oil, isn't it? Time to clean that out good.
Before I rechecked the timing, I pulled the SP out and grounded to engine. I heard a somewhat loud bang, immediately turned off. Don't know what it was. Hopefully all is ok....
Before I rechecked the timing, I pulled the SP out and grounded to engine. I heard a somewhat loud bang, immediately turned off. Don't know what it was. Hopefully all is ok....
khudson24
Tuned and Synch'ed
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2011
- Messages
- 28
Just wanted to update - found out the reason I was getting no spark even with new coils and dyna III - the power wire from the ignition was faulty. Figured this may be helpful if anyone gets the same symptoms.
Thanks again for all the help and direction....
Thanks again for all the help and direction....