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Refurbishing my 2007 Norge

Discussion in 'BNS12 Chat & Tech' started by mylovelyhorse, May 15, 2019.

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  1. mylovelyhorse

    mylovelyhorse Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    Does anyone know of an illustrated guide to which screws should and should not be adjusted when doing the throttle body balance / syncing? And does the tank need to come off / be lifted up to do it?
     
  2. Bill Hagan

    Bill Hagan GT Reference GT Famiglia

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    Well, saw yours but thought that surely someone more experienced than I would respond.

    I can only reply as to your second question, based on watching smarter folks do this to my Norge.

    You do not need to left or remove tank to balance the TB's.

    Now, if I am wrong, the experts are lighting their flame throwers now ... but at least you'll know. :giggle:

    Best,

    Bill
     
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  3. GT-Rx®

    GT-Rx® Administrator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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  4. mylovelyhorse

    mylovelyhorse Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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  5. Brian UK

    Brian UK GT Reference

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    It's fairly well documented in the workshop manual for the 2 valve - the mechanical bit that is. Obviously you won't have access to the Guzzi kit (Axone or whatever) to reset the TPS so you have to use other software.
     
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  6. mylovelyhorse

    mylovelyhorse Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    Now that I have - serves me right really, I’ve sort of got used to not trusting manufacturer manuals.
     
  7. mylovelyhorse

    mylovelyhorse Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    I'm just looking at the throttle bodies and if I'm right, I these two pics show (left and right) where the manometer needs to be connected, however I need to find something hollow to go into where these bolts are currently, that the manometer hose can connect onto. A spigot of some sort, yes?

    Right cylinder:
    https://imgur.com/ovvxZej


    Left cylinder:
    https://imgur.com/2ZMMOFZ

    Any suggestions on a useful spigot source?
     
  8. Brian UK

    Brian UK GT Reference

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    They are M6, most balancing devices come with connectors. But I made my own by drilling an M^ stud down the centre, then fitting a nut halfway.
     
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  9. mylovelyhorse

    mylovelyhorse Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    It was suggested to me that I might use MIG welder tips so - as I won't have time this weekend to actually do the work - I've splurged out a whole £3 and ordered some :)

    I have tried to undo the bolts and (just my luck) the one on the left hand side immediately decided to start rounding off. I've stopped that and applied a pint or two of PlusGas to try and ease things. If not, I'll just leave the throttle balance as it is until after the Stella Alpina.
     
  10. mylovelyhorse

    mylovelyhorse Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    Yet another Norge problem [​IMG]:(

    I've just balanced the throttle bodies. When I started I found the left hand adjuster already all the way in and the right about 1 turn out. I closed the right hand adjuster screw as per instructions. Once I had the bike running and up to temp, I could see they were a little way out at 3.5k rpm. The left t/b had a lower vacuum reading than the right and so I had to adjust the screw on the right. I got the balance right at 3.5k, reset the TPS and then set the balance again at tick-over as per instructions.

    I've been for a ride and the bike feels smoother and like it picks up a bit better, which is good. Not so good is the 1,600 rpm tick over. Not quite sure what to do about that and a spot of googling suggests all sorts of horrific stuff about replacing stepper motors and such.

    FWIW I did NOT touch the 'sacred screw'. Dreaded previous owner might have, of course.

    Suggestions?
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2019
  11. Brian UK

    Brian UK GT Reference

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    To balance at 3 or 4k rpm you adjust the linkage screw. You shouldn't touch the individualair bleed screws at anything other than tickover.

    There has been lots of discussion on the high tickover when warm. Most common answer is to put a tap in the air bleed supply from the air box to the stepper motor and turn off when warm. Needs to be open for cold starting.
     
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  12. john zibell

    john zibell Moderator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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    I guess he didn't read the thread I sent him to on setting it up, nor did he get the Breva service manual in the downloads.
     
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  13. mylovelyhorse

    mylovelyhorse Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    Ah right, there’s the error then. I’ll rinse and repeat tomorrow.
     
  14. Brian UK

    Brian UK GT Reference

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    RTFM.
    At 3 or 4k rpm, the side with the lower vacuum is open more than the other.
     
  15. mylovelyhorse

    mylovelyhorse Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    Yeah, clear error on my part. I'm re-doing this morning and will hopefully get it right this time! Gives me a chance to test ride the new tyres in the rain too, although that's less of a welcome opportunity.
     
  16. mylovelyhorse

    mylovelyhorse Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    OK, I've had another go. I can get the 3,500-4,000 rpm balance to left cylinder at -0.5 bar and right cylinder at -0.45 bar. I can’t get it any closer and with the engine currently showing 77oC I’m going to give it a rest for a while.

    I must confess I really hate this job and if time and funds permitted I would very willingly hand it and cash over to a specialist. Still, one does what one can with what one has.
     
  17. mylovelyhorse

    mylovelyhorse Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    Well, that was one of the most dispiriting experiences I can remember in a very long time. I had the 3,500 RPM pressures within 0.01 bar. I had the ticker pressures matching and the ticker at 1,200 rpm. Off I go for a test ride and by the time I've done 4 miles the tickover is around 2,000 rpm. A sharp rev-and-release gets it to drop but only to ~1,500 rpm.



    I have no idea what to do next and am rapidly running out of time. I have another option - get the F800GS MOT'd and use that. Knowing the GS after not having run since the Dragon Rally in Feb, it'll start first time. As I leave for the Stella Alpina on Weds night, that's the only useful option.
     
  18. mylovelyhorse

    mylovelyhorse Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    Thanks to everyone here for their assistance on this long journey. For the time being, unfortunately, it has to end here.
     
  19. Bill Hagan

    Bill Hagan GT Reference GT Famiglia

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    Well, condolences on this frustrating struggle.

    And, best wishes for a grand trip ... on, gasp, a Kraut moto. [I was born in Bavaria so I am allowed to call it that.] :giggle:

    Seriously, post pix in the ride-report section when you return or along the way.

    Bill

    P.S. Email me when things settle down: wrhagan AT earthlink DOT net.
     
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  20. mylovelyhorse

    mylovelyhorse Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    Thank you. I’ve done a little more work and still can’t get a constant and consistent tick over. The bike feels better at cruising revs - I did a 4 mile trip round the local roads at a (legal) 40mph or so, pulling 4K RPM and all felt smoother than it did. Coming back to the garage however it felt like the bike was pulling on the slow manoeuvres. Stopped and dropped into neutral to find tick over at around 2k again. A sharp flick of the throttle and it settled back ... then rode gradually again.

    After the engine cooled I liberally doused the whole area with carb cleaner. I also ran the left air bleed screw most of the way out and then back in again a few times just in case there’s a bit of old fuel deposits lurking in there. I hoped it might get dislodged.

    Tomorrow I shall call the nearest Moto Guzzi dealership - some 30 miles away - and ask if there’s anything they can do to help. I shall also bung the over night charged battery onto the GS. If that runs then I might well just take that, even though I am reluctant to do so.

    Worst comes to the worst, I’ve let a friend (my riding buddy) down and I lose the cost of various Campanile & 1 ferry booking. Such is life.
     

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