Safe Turn System

[jparker]

I am getting ready to install a Safe Turn System on my 2014 Norge GT8V. Looks easy enough. Has anyone here insalled the STS? Any problems? Thanks

 

[jparker]

I finally installed the Safe Turn System on my 2014 GT8V. It was fairly simple. It works very well. I highly recommend adding this to every bike you own. I also installed STS on my 2008 Piaggio MP3 500. Works great. I'll be glad to offer tips on the install.

 

[Trout]

What is an STS?

 

[Raven]

I assume he means Smart Turn System. It's a self cancelling turn signal system which uses sensors to stop your flasher when you've finished turning.
There's also a Smart Brake Module which senses when you are engine braking and downshifting to turn on your brake light to warn drivers behind you that you are slowing down.

 

[john zibell]

I assume he means Smart Turn System. It's a self cancelling turn signal system which uses sensors to stop your flasher when you've finished turning.
There's also a Smart Brake Module which senses when you are engine braking and downshifting to turn on your brake light to warn drivers behind you that you are slowing down.

I use my brain for that. Don't need any more complications.

 

[Dycokac]

I've made a habit of touching the signal cancel after every turn myself.

 

[canuck1969]

I've made a habit of touching the signal cancel after every turn myself.

I'll take it one step further, I am in the habit of cancelling my signals after a sharp curve in the road when they were not even on.....guess that muscle memory must be pretty ingrained.

My only concern with those type of systems is you lose that muscle and memory training and when it fails for what ever reason you hope it does not bite you in the ass.

It is like sensors in cars. I have one vehicle with backup sensors and another without. When I drive the one with out I have to remember that it will not beep if there is something behind me. Can't tell you how many times I have almost hit something waiting for the beep. Don't even get me started on self driving cars.

 

[GuzziMoto]

I am with you. I have a habit of just randomly hitting my turn signal cancel button, not just after turns but even when I am going straight. No harm in hitting it for no reason, better that then driving down the road with my turn signal on.
I doubt I will ever get another new car, I think the Jeep we bought will be the last brand new 4 wheeled vehicle we buy. The next one will likely be used, hopefully some sort of classic. I just don't want all the new self driving auto braking tech they are coming out with. Call me a crusty old man, but I prefer to do the driving. If it ever gets to where I can't properly and safely drive I will consider it. But by then I hope we have worked out the bugs.
I have had motorcycles that self cancel their turn signals. I did not really find it to be all that amazing. Just a little less involving. And to me that is a step in the wrong direction.

 

[canuck1969]

I was at the movies the other day with my kids and up comes a commercial during the preshow that was showing a father teaching his young daughter how to drive. She was nervous and the father calmly tells her not to be scared that she can do it and to activate the self drive. A big smile comes on her face and she is all calm and the car drives off into the sunset.

I am freaking glad that she is not scared but I a terrified to come across this person when the self drives cancels and she remembers that she does not know how to drive while she is posting selfies of herself behind the wheel.

Some day all cars will be self driving and they will be safer but that transition stage will kill a lot of people that are being told it is safer now to have it and letting their skills decline. Look at the guy that killed himself in his Tesla that self drove itself into a concrete barrier. The airline industry has figured out that automation can kill. Pilots must have a number of non ILS landings so they don’t lose their manual landing skills. We kill more people on the road every day then died in airline crashes (for those keeping track, i just looked it up, 1.3 Million people die in car crashes world wide (about 3300 a day) vs 105,000 people that have died in all forms of flight since 1905---excluding war)) and yet we are going to train our kids to let the car drive for them. Never mind how many are injured in cars (20 to 50 million for those counting). Not going to happen.

We are unfortunately training a new generation of drivers to have less driving skills. I have an SUV wilth all the fancy auto braking, lane departure and accident avoidance. I like it but I will not let my kids drive it. They are learning to drive the old fashion way. With hands, feet, eyes and a brain. Call me old fashion. My kids do.

 

[JSchu]

I'm currently trying to install the STS system on my 2015 Norge, but can't get it to work.

At first I couldn't get the calibration signal, but then realized the turn signals don't work without the dashboard installed, nor could I get the calibration signal until after the bike went through its boot up process.

Now if I power the STS after I let the bike's electronics boot up I get the calibration signal. So I buttoned everything up and went for a test ride. No luck.

I tried plugging the STS after the bike was running, I got the calibration signal, but it still won't self cancel.

 

[Bert Remington]

jparker -- I would be interested in any information you could provide on your Norge STS installation. I looked at the STS for my 2012 Norge and it appeared I would basically bypass the dashboard. I asked the STS folks about Norge compatibility and they said didn't think it could be done due to "ECU". So I'm looking forward to your "fairly simple." Thanks.

And I was amused at the human factors engineering responses, at least one authored by a rider who installed an electronic cruise control on an ABS-equipped MG.

 

[Bill Hagan]

jparker -- I would be interested in any information you could provide on your Norge STS installation. I looked at the STS for my 2012 Norge and it appeared I would basically bypass the dashboard. I asked the STS folks about Norge compatibility and they said didn't think it could be done due to "ECU". So I'm looking forward to your "fairly simple." Thanks.

And I was amused at the human factors engineering responses, at least one authored by a rider who installed an electronic cruise control on an ABS-equipped MG.

I just saw this thread, and "liked" all of those "human factors engineering responses" you panned. FWIW, I almost never ride the slab, and only rarely on long straights, so cruise control is not a need.

All of that said, I have, over the years, gotten so used to routinely (and randomly, too) hitting the t/s button that a STS would either confuse me .., or it.

As with all such things, it's a YMMV item.

Best,

Bill

 

[canuck1969]

And I was amused at the human factors engineering responses, at least one authored by a rider who installed an electronic cruise control on an ABS-equipped MG.

I have failed to understand your point that implies cruise control is an issue on an ABS bike. Last time I checked cars with abs have cruise. One has nothing to do with the other. One is for convenience and one is a possible safety issue. Yes I installed a cruise and yes it turns off if you even breath in the direction of the brake or clutch. 100x safer than a throttle lock. Am I missing something.

 

[canuck1969]

I have an 84 Yamaha with self canceling signals. Absolutely hate it and figuring out a way to bypass it. Have been caught at a light trying to turn left and have had the signals turn off on more than one occasion. I am now in the habit of repeatedly flicking the signal at stops just to be sure. Nothing beats a good habit. I am sure the technology has gotten better with lean sensors and accelerometer but still not my cup of tea. Just a personal preference I guess.

 

[Bert Remington]

I'm very interested in the STS for my 2012 Norge GT 8V so I sent a follow-up information request PM to jparker and JSchu. In the meantime, here's what I know from Slovenia website:

* self-cancels upon completion of left or right turn; upon exit from traffic circle; upon lane change
* electronics module incorporates gyroscope, accelerometer, and motion detector; has specific mounting requirements

Here's what I know from the User Manual on Amazon website:

* intended for traditional (eg my Royal Enfield Classic 500) turn signals with +12V feed; flasher module; paired left-right side turn signal bulbs; mechanically-latching handlebar switch; ground-through-incandescent-bulb indicator light
* wired between handlebar switch and remaining turn signal circuits
* uses foam pieces to change mechanically-latched handlebar switch to momentary-on with latching function provided by STS; manual cancellation via repeat of switch push

And here's what I know from the Moto Guzzi documentation:

* handlebar switch is momentary-on with latching function provided by instrument panel; switch has no direct connection to +12V power or ground
* flasher function and indicator lights integrated within instrument panel; four individual wires to turn signal bulbs
* manual cancellation via pressing handlebar switch to signal unlatch request

It appears to me it would be easy to insert the STS and a flasher relay in place of the instrument panel but I am concerned with retaining the turn indicator arrows without risking my expensive instrument panel. Another possibility is using the STS to signal the delatch request for automatic cancellation but then how is the STS notified of a manual cancellation, again without risk to the instrument panel? So I'm looking forward to jparker's and JSchu's solutions.

 

[Bert Remington]

As guidance to young engineers and managers, I suggested the authors Trevor Kletz, Don Norman and Henry Petroski.

And you may enjoy this recent book by Norman: amazon.com/gp/product/B00QFJSEWQ/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_hsch_vapi_taft_p2_i2

 

[jparker]

jparker -- I would be interested in any information you could provide on your Norge STS installation. I looked at the STS for my 2012 Norge and it appeared I would basically bypass the dashboard. I asked the STS folks about Norge compatibility and they said didn't think it could be done due to "ECU". So I'm looking forward to your "fairly simple." Thanks.

And I was amused at the human factors engineering responses, at least one authored by a rider who installed electronic a cruise control system on an ABS-equipped MG.

I was the guy who installed MCCruise electronic cruise control on my 2014 GT8V. It works flawlessly. I then installed the STS self-canceling turn signal system on this bike & also on my 2008 Piaggio MP3 500 scooter. STS sent an improperly wired unit the first time. The 2nd unit works great.

 

[Bert Remington]

jparker -- I've gone through the STS documentation several times. It's obvious how to install the STS on my Royal Enfield Classic 500 which has a traditional turn signal system. But not so for my Norge. Some questions on your successful insstallation:

1. Did you cut any wires to insert the STS unit between the turn signal switch and the dashboard?
2. If so, which wires by function (I can figure out color, pinout, etc)?
3. Did you use all eight STS wires?
4. Does the normal Norge Reset press cancel the turn signal?
5. Does a Left or Right "second press" cancel the turn signal per the STS documentation?
6. Did the STS engineers know you were installing their unit on a Norge (they told me it wouldn't work)?
7. Was the first STS unit actually improperly wired or did the engineers modify the second unit to work with your Norge?

Thanks.