Scott's How To Recover The 5 Digit Security Code

[scottmastrocinque]

An update to my situation... The 2nd key has been found. My dash does NOT ask for a key code when first coming up (with the lost key). As the bike is buried in the shed at the moment (being winter here and all), I've not yet tried the 2nd key yet. From reading here (and on other Guzzi boards), it looks likely the dealer set a code of some sort for the first key. I have a rubber tag on the 2nd key's keyring showing a 8xxxx number. Do all new Moto Guzzi key blanks come encoded with a new unique key number? Or is this tiny rubber tag the likely number the dealer encoded for the first one? I plan to dig the bike out tomorrow and experiment a bit, as the weather is supposed to be decent. I just don't want to get into an immobilized mode with extended screwing around... ;-)

Jim

I don’t know where you have been reading but you’ve got it completely wrong.

I cannot count the number of times I’ve explained this but I will make a note to remember this for reference.

The dash is a very simple computer. It uses an antenna in the ignition switch to read a transponder chip which is encased in the key head.

Each key has a unique transponder code. This is different from the physical cut in the key.

CLONED KEYS are exactly that. Both the physical cut of the key AND the transponder code, is completely duplicated from one key to another. THIS IS NOT HAVING TWO KEYS!

This is having TWO OF THE SAME KEY from the dashboard’s point of view. CLONED KEYS look identical to it. They are indistinguishable from each other.

The rubber tag or plastic code card, with the number on it, originally attached to your original keys, is the key CUT CODE. It gives information to a locksmith on how to cut the groves.

The dash is capable of recording 4 unique transponder codes. So, this means that 4 different keys can be programmed into the dash memory. Each of those 4 keys will have the exact same groove cut into them so they fit into the ignition and lock tumblers, but they must have different and unique transponder codes.

The dash requires a User Code to be entered when it was first put into service. It asks for a new code everytime the motorcycle is started until one is entered, then it asks no more.

This code serves a programming function as well as an override function. 2 very different functions

If you have a cut key (one that obviously fits the tumblers), but its transponder is not programmed to the dash, then you can insert the key. The dash will recognize that it is an unregistered transponder (key) and ask you for your User Code. You can then enter the stored user code, and this will override the dash security and allow the unprogrammed key to start the engine. It will also allow you to then program the key to the dash.

If you have lost the user code, you can use the function inside the dash menu, to recover the user code. It requires two exactly cut keys with different transponder codes which have already been previously programmed into the dash memory.

(Remember, you can have up to 4 different transponder coded keys programmed at the same time in the dash.).

So when the menu function of Code Recover is selected, it will ask you for the first key, which you insert and turn on and off, then it will ask you for the second key which you do the same thing. It will then allow you to enter a new code which it will then store in the dash as the new User Code.

——————-

So, in your case…if you have found the second key, it MUST BE ALREADY PROGRAMMED IN THE DASH or it will not start the motorcycle without the User Code.

The ONLY WAY an unprogrammed key will start the motorcycle is with the stored User Code.

You can defeat this whole security system code thing and start the motorcycle by unplugging the dash but none of the dash functions will work and if you plug the dash in on a running motorcycle, the engine will again be stopped and disabled from starting again, instantly.

There is no method available to any Moto Guzzi dealer whatsoever, to remove a user code from the dashboard.

There is no method to reprogram the dash to erase a user code by any Moto Guzzi dealer.

Carmo in the Netherlands, actually systematically opens the dashboard and directly jumpers onto the chip where the user code is stored, and then reads the stored data in the chip, literally bit by bit on the chip. They then reseal the dash and reprogram new keys and/or provide the stored user code to the owner and guarantee their dash repair and reseal for 1 year.

This is how the system actually works.

We should just make this explanation a Sticky for reference. It comes up all the time as motorcycles change hands without keys or codes.

 

[William H.]

OK
I have this "Code Card" thats attached to my spare key. So this just a code for the key right and not something programed into the bike?? (This should blow Scott's mind)

 

[Raven]

Code for the key nothing to do with the bike.

 

[Raven]

 

[scottmastrocinque]

Precisely how I feel sometimes about this stuff.

Literally 2” above his post, it says this:

“ The rubber tag or plastic code card, with the number on it, originally attached to your original keys, is the key CUT CODE. It gives information to a locksmith on how to cut the groves.”

When you take tons of time and effort to document and explain in detail, how and why something works the way that it does, only to be repeatedly asked the same questions which you have explained multiple times and those answers are readily available with the slightest of reading effort.

But ok, I’ll be the bad guy here. Bad Scott!

Blame me again for not acquiescing with a smile and heartfelt joy to every single person who asks the same repeated and already answered questions.

I’m the big bad meanie…fine. So be it.

 

[Jabbo]

Scott,
Thanks for taking the time to explain this, again.

 

[scottmastrocinque]

Scott,
Thanks for taking the time to explain this, again.

You are most welcome! I’m very happy you found it helpful. Enjoy.

 

[OnLine]

Sounds simple enough, go to MG or locksmith & get a 'blank' and have it cut, then programming it, which is were the wheels fall of for me. Since it say you need 2 keys to program a 3rd, it seems prudent to get a 3rd (&4th?) key cut before actually losing a key. Did I get that correct?
And that "user code" I somehow entered when I first turned on the bike, you say the dealer can't reset that one, ummm (I was just fiddling, honest, didn't mean to set anything/something, more ummm)

 

[scottmastrocinque]

You clearly didn’t bother to actually read what I spent a great deal of time writing, because you got the whole thing wrong.

I cannot explain it more accurately than I already did in Post #1.

Please go back and read the entire explanation from start to finish. If you do this, then you will understand correctly.

 

[404p]

You clearly didn’t bother to actually read what I spent a great deal of time writing, because you got the whole thing wrong.

I cannot explain it more accurately than I already did in Post #1.

Please go back and read the entire explanation from start to finish. If you do this, then you will understand correctly.

to be fair, communication is difficult. we often take it for granted and assume it is a simple thing we do all the time, but sometimes people misread a single word or simply get something backwards. It is a common problem in almost all communication, but it is especially difficult in asynchronous communication - like here online. On more than one occasion I have spent multiple weeks trying to explain a simple detail to someone before realizing there was a single word or tiny bit of missing background information that was confusing them. of course though, yes sometimes people are just daft.

 

[404p]

Sounds simple enough, go to MG or locksmith & get a 'blank' and have it cut, then programming it, which is were the wheels fall of for me. Since it say you need 2 keys to program a 3rd, it seems prudent to get a 3rd (&4th?) key cut before actually losing a key. Did I get that correct?

I dont think you did. Look at your manual or your dash. In my case the manual describes a mode selector - one of those modes is "change user code". This is the code that must be programmed into any new key, but first you have to know the user code before you can program it into anything.

 

[scottmastrocinque]

I dont think you did. Look at your manual or your dash. In my case the manual describes a mode selector - one of those modes is "change user code". This is the code that must be programmed into any new key, but first you have to know the user code before you can program it into anything.

This above, is also incorrect.

USER CODE is entered into the dash upon the first using of the motorcycle when it was brand new. If you don’t enter one to store, it will remind you each time you start the bike.

The USER CODE is a owner selectable code used to OVERRIDE the security system in the even of a failed key read or loss of the key, whereby you can still start the motorcycle. It is also used to PROGRAM/REGISTER unique keys (a key with a unique transponder code), to the dash and security system. You can have up to 4 unique keys programmed to the dash. They all have the same physical cut on the key itself, but they all have a unique transponder chip ID.

CLONED KEYS are seen as the exact same key, regardless of how many you have.

For a key to be unique, and fulfill the dash requirements of 2 unique keys to reset the USER CODE, they must have different transponder identification numbers, AND, they must have already been PROGRAMMED/REGISTERED to the dash, BEFORE you try and use them to reset the lost USER CODE.

Again, all explained it painful detail in Post #1

 

[tris]

Scott
I've just re-read #1 and it seems all very logical to me
Thanks for putting the effort in to explain.

Can I suggest that you turn the computer off for a couple of hours, put yourself outside a nice bottle of red wine and ignore all of us

Tris

 

[404p]

The USER CODE is a owner selectable code used to OVERRIDE the security system in the even of a failed key read or loss of the key, whereby you can still start the motorcycle.

This is a useful clarification, thank you. Something I dont see in the thread though is about adding newly cut keys with new transponders into the dash. Can dealers do that? In my case, I only have one key and I dont have the user code. Can a dealer program new keys with the new transponders? Your posts seem to imply that is possible.

 

[Raven]

Without the user code and only one key, you can only clone the existing key. You will be in the same situation as now but with two identical keys. Some locksmiths can do this and perhaps dealers too.
Only Carmo in The Netherlands can make and program new keys and give access to a new user code.

I had a new key cloned by a locksmith a couple of years ago. I'm screwed if the code reader in the ignition fails. I still have no user code to override the system in case of failure. I just have an extra key in case I misplace one.

 

[404p]

Again, all explained it painful detail in Post #1

OK, never mind I thought I had found post#1, but then I found more! This was the important information I was missing

To PROGRAM an additional key (up to 4 different ones again), requires 1 good key registered to the dash, and the User Code.

 

[OnLine]

You clearly didn’t bother to actually read what I spent a great deal of time writing, because you got the whole thing wrong.

I cannot explain it more accurately than I already did in Post #1.

Please go back and read the entire explanation from start to finish. If you do this, then you will understand correctly.

I followed what you wrote.
- Need 2 keys (already programmed/matched to dash) in order to reset "user code" in the dash
- The dealer can NOT do this user code reset
- To create a new (3rd or 4th) key I need 1 key and user code.

So where I am at (& prob not explaining very well), is :
I NEED to reset that user code BEFORE I lose a key (& remember code)
I NEED to get some spare keys cut & registered with dash BEFORE I forget the code or lose a key

Do I have this correct?

For those above that mention "The Manual" : It contains every lang known to mankind, written in 3pt text - I can't read it. The diagrams are mostly useless, some upside down look like something. But bottom line is MG should save some $$$ & give up printing manual, it's a waste of paper. Are there any SAFETY issues in there I should know about? The factory should think on that issue imho

 

[404p]

For those above that mention "The Manual" : It contains every lang known to mankind, written in 3pt text - I can't read it.

I found my manual online - its nice in that you can zoom in and read the text easily. But I agree it does not provide the clearest instructions in English. I managed to figure out how to set the clock, but I have not been able to use the cruise control or even reset the tripmeter - even using the manual.

 

[scottmastrocinque]

Yes, to program/register a new, different transponder key, requires BOTH the USER CODE and an already registered key.

To overwrite the USER CODE, requires 2 previously and currently registered/programmed to the dash, each with their own transponder code, keys. CLONED KEYS ARE READ BY THE SYSTEM AS THE EXACT SAME KEY. IF YOU HAVE 100 CLONED KEYS, AS FAR AS THE DASH IS CONCERNED, YOU HAVE ONLY 1 KEY!

THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ANY DEALER OR PIAGGIO CAN DO TO READ OR CHANGE A USER CODE IF YOU FORGET THE CODE!!!

ONLY CARMO IN HOLLAND CAN READ THE CODE DIRECTLY FROM THE CHIP ON THE CIRCUIT BOARD.

 

[Bill Hagan]

Permit me to add -- hopefully not in any confusing, irrelevant, or beaten-to-death way -- a word of caution about the basic process of setting a personal code, NOT about recovering a "lost" code.

For no good reasons and multiple bad ones of the lethargy and sloth sort -- I never set reset the factory code on my Griso. I did, however, do it on my Norge ... and, thankfully, was able to pass that along to its new owner last year.

Ah, but that's not my story today, which involves my V85.

So, having seen a few recent posts here to this thread, I decided that, instead of merely admiring my Guzzis down in the Moto Grappa, I would do something useful and, among those tasks, set a personal code on my Guardia d'Onore.

And, I did that quickly and (mostly) successfully.

Happily, I had taken a cell-phone pic of the "new" code. Then, a few days ago, while getting together some pix for a slideshow about how Scott recently brought my long-suffering EV back to life -- you'll see those soon -- I saw that I had keyed in a different number than I thought I had.

True, by only one digit, but that's all it takes.

I nearly screamed as I was concerned that I was forever stuck with the "wrong" code.

On the bright side, at least I knew what it was. Had I not taken that photo when I was done before turning the V85 off and on to set that code, I would be rereading Scott's posts here, unnecessarily spending some Christmas money, and packing up my dash for a trip across the Atlantic.

Bill