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Service warning light on only at high speed

**update**
Looks like I found the gremlin causing the red service light issue! While riding the bike after checking literally every electrical connection and replacing the sump spacer gasket with no success, I decided to put the bike on the center stand, start it and rev it up to 3500 rpm until the service light came on. This time with me off of the bike, I was able to notice a slight drop in rpm along with some engine popping. It was very subtle at first, but after several attempts the engine popping seemed to get worse almost as if it was running on one cylinder. I popped the plug wire covers and found electrical tape wrapped all around the spark plug boot of the right cylinder. My guess is that when the guys rollerized the bike they damaged the right plug cap. Then, like a cat covering up his s--t, they wrapped a bunch of tape around it and gave the bike back to me. I replaced both plug caps with NGK plug caps and the bike is running fine; however, now I'm getting a code, ECU21, for the oxygen sensor. This sensor is brand new and was installed last March and has less than 1K miles on it. I pulled the sensor and checked the heating element for resistance. According to the service manual, I should be seeing 12-14 ohms. I'm reading 8.5 ohms on my multi-meter. So now I have a question for you all: knowing that the Guzzi service manual has a number of errors, is the 12-14 ohm spec correct? Would the fact that I'm only reading 8.5 ohms be enough to throw the code? I've been through three of these sensors in the last couple of years and this one is only seven months old.
 
The ohm spec for the heater element is correct. If you have diagnostic software you should be able to see the lambda voltage change every few seconds. If you don't have access to software, disconnect the sensor and connect a volt meter between pins 1 and 2. Start the bike and let it warm up. Voltage should range from 0.0 to 0.9 volts. If not the sensor part is bad. The heater element is just so the sensor will work with the engine cold.
 
I don’t think that it’s out of the realm of possible that the O2 sensor got toasted by the intermittent cutting out of the cylinder and the radical gas composition change. Unburnt fuel (creating an excessively rich condition) will kill an O2 sensor in relatively short order. It will be covered in black soot.

The fact that you’ve killed 3 makes me highly suspect about your fueling.

Just a thought.
 
Last edited:
scottmastrocinque said:
I don’t think that it’s out of the realm of possible that the O2 sensor got toasted by the intermittent cutting out of the cylinder and the radical gas composition change. Unburnt fuel (creating an excessively rich condition) will kill an O2 sensor in relatively short order. It will be covered in black soot.

The fact that you’ve killed 3 makes me highly suspect about your fueling.

Just a thought.
Click to expand...

Thanks so much guys,

I wanted to share the warning light resolution in case anyone else runs into the same scenario. I would never have guessed the plug cap was arcing. The engine seemed to run perfectly but it was enough to trip the service light intermittently without leaving a code.. I wear a full face helmet and that plus normal road vibrations made it impossible to notice anything while riding. It was only when I stood next to the bike on the center stand with the rpm's up to about 3500 that I was able to notice an ever so slight drop in RPM when the light came on. Eventually the engine began to misfire and that is what pointed me in the right direction. I can't believe the dealer that rollerized my bike would wrap tape around a damaged plug cap and return the bike to me that way without saying anything. To make matters worse, he charged 8 hours labor at $145.00 per hour! He was the last one to pull the plug wires and the problem started a few days after I picked up the bike so I can say there is no doubt where the tape came from. Damn, what I wouldn't give for a competent Guzzi mechanic in our area! I wont mention the Dealer name on the forum but I feel I owe it to other Guzzi owners to avoid being taken advantage of. Anyone interested can contact me directly for more information. That said time to move on to the new issue...

John, even if the sensor side checks out wouldn't the heater resistance being out of spec still throw a code? I'll most likely go ahead and buy another sensor anyway so I will have one if I need it. I Looked in the Guzzitech store but nothing came up in the search.

Scott, the sensor actually looks pretty clean but I hear you. When you mention fueling issues are you talking about fuel quality as in old or poor quality fuel or mapping/injector/throttle body issues? I can say my situation over the past year has left little or no opportunity to ride and the bike does sit for several weeks without being used. I do use a fuel stabilizer for that very reason but I have to admit the gas does get old...

Hopefully things will improve soon and I'll get the old girl back on the road much more often. I'm Looking forward to a trip to the Wolf's Pen Gap as soon as things get better. I was there when I purchased my bike in 2011 from Riders Hill in Georgia. I really miss those folks...
 
No, I’m sorry for the ambiguity.

I meant that I would be suspect that your bike is running amiss fueling/map wise or vacuum/exhaust leaks and not an old gas issue.

This is my thinking because you have burned up 3 sensors which is VERY RARE indeed. They just don’t fail like that.

I’ve never replaced one on the plethora of motorcycles I own and have owned in my life. Not one, ever. Nor have I replaced one in my workshop.

There are no moving parts so failures must be induced as far as my experience has been and would indicate.

I wish you were local because 5 minutes on my gas analyzer would tell me everything.

The spark plug cap shorting to the cylinder is a well documented issue here on the forum. It has to do with improper removal of the spark plug cap by yanking on it and cracking the insulation. The spark then preferentially jumps to the cylinder block instead of the plug.

FWIW: I do not like “fuel stabilizers” like Stabil in a FI engine. Lawnmower, maybe, but not a motorcycle.
 
scottmastrocinque said:
I’ve never replaced one on the plethora of motorcycles I own and have owned in my life. Not one, ever. Nor have I replaced one in my workshop.

There are no moving parts so failures must be induced as far as my experience has been and would indicate.
Click to expand...

Scott, I've replaced a few. I had one on my bike fail when riding to a rally. Fuel mileage went into the toilet. Had a sensor shipped to a friends house that was on the way to the rally, replaced it and then all was good. Got to the rally and a Guzzi rep was there. He was updating my map with Axone and told me I had a lambda sensor fault. I told him I know and what happened on the trip. He couldn't believe I could diagnose without access to software. I've also replace a few on other bikes. I've only seen one sensor that changed voltage so fast you couldn't read the voltage like it should. Most only change voltage every 3-4 seconds or so from my observations which to me is not ideal, but acceptable.
 
john zibell said:
Scott, I've replaced a few. I had one on my bike fail when riding to a rally. Fuel mileage went into the toilet. Had a sensor shipped to a friends house that was on the way to the rally, replaced it and then all was good. Got to the rally and a Guzzi rep was there. He was updating my map with Axone and told me I had a lambda sensor fault. I told him I know and what happened on the trip. He couldn't believe I could diagnose without access to software. I've also replace a few on other bikes. I've only seen one sensor that changed voltage so fast you couldn't read the voltage like it should. Most only change voltage every 3-4 seconds or so from my observations which to me is not ideal, but acceptable.
Click to expand...

Oh I realize they go tits up John but I was just saying that I’ve never experienced it personally or professionally.

I don’t ever recall any mechanic ever replacing one in 6 years at Brattin Motors BMW Motorcycles even.

Go figure…
 
Thanks Scott,

To be honest, I'm not so sure the first 2 were bad now that I think about it. The first one was replaced by the dealer who rollerized the bike. I wasn't having any issues with codes or service lights when I took the bike to him. He said they found the bad sensor when going through the diagnostics before calling me to pick up the bike after rollerization. I don't know what software he used or if it was accurate. Same guys that tried to hide the bad plug cap. A shame the diagnostics didn't catch that!! The second sensor was replaced by a local mechanic who was trying to diagnose the warning light problem. That was about 7 months ago. I don't know what software he was using as he is a KTM dealer but he says he works on all makes and models. He told me he has Guzzi software but I don't know what brand software he uses. I'm thinking Guzzidiag. He also says his mechanic used to work for a Guzzi dealer. Anyway it took hours of riding the bike with a laptop strapped to the passenger seat to produce the o2 sensor code and that was only once with no dash or ecu errors on the bike. As I said the warning light wasn't producing a code and these guys were desperate to find something. (I wish they had checked the plug caps).... Again I'm not sure the diagnosis was accurate. Of course the new o2 sensor didn't solve the service light problem and after replacing the second o2 sensor I started receiving the dash codes 07 and 08. That's why I replaced the oil pressure sensor and sump spacer gasket. I'm not sure why I suddenly received those codes unless the bad plug cap was messing with the ecu/dash and they just started throwing erroneous codes. It seems strange that after wanting to find a code I suddenly got several. The new problem is the service light comes on as soon as the bike reaches operating temp. and stays on until the bike is turned off. I wonder if now that the arcing issue is solved the ecu is throwing accurate codes.... just a thought.

.
The only way I could get the ecu21 code was to go through the bike's on board diagnostics with the bike running and the service light on. No codes in memory or active when the bike is turned off. So far I have only checked the resistance on the probe's heater element and that was out of spec. Tested at 8.5 ohms. Based on that alone I will suck it up and order a new o2 sensor.

I do wish I could get my bike to you. I would love to have an expert give it the once over! Considering the time and money spent already it may be worth the trip! I think ill take a look at google maps and ask Santa for a trip to Ohio this Christmas!
 
Guys,

Before I kill another o2 sensor I would like to check my current mapping as Scott suggested. There is a performance shop an hour or so away that I believe can handle it but he will most likely need to know what the most recent map version is for my 2010 four valve abs...Can you help?
 
I have that info, got to look for it. My notes I take from factory releases.

It also may be here on this site, if you look back for it.

OK , got a technical bulletin 11-09-2009 says STA42ZA for ABS
Then on 9/18 I printed the latest mapping posted and it says STV8V52s for the latest
I also have written in ink STV8V52K on the same sheet
In my notes for VDSTS software(it reads a bit different from Navigator, Axone & PADS) stock software.
it says Part#2229 STV8V18
I still use my software I spent $1000 for, Todd used to sell the same stuff but newer Centurion model.

That's all I got from 12yrs ago, don't forget bulletin date is Sept 11th 09 not Nov.
 
Last edited:
Performance shop? Forget it.

GO TO THE SOURCE AND GET THE REAL DEAL MY FRIEND!

Have you considered Todd’s ECU flash tool? Then you can get a good solid map from Todd.

https://gtmotocycles.com/collections/fueling/products/gt-motocycles-5am-7sm-reflash-tool

I have Todd’s “Full Monty” setup with the PCV and 2 sensor AT. Best running Stelvio ever for many years now.

https://gtmotocycles.com/collections/fueling/products/gtm-ft-pc-v-at300-ecu-flash-tool

I think it is money well spent not to mention, you will have 2 brand new wide band (far superior) O2 sensors. I have had this at least 8 or 9 years now.

YOU DON’T NEED A MECHANIC TO INSTALL EITHER. YOU CAN EASILY DO THIS YOURSELF. IT IS NOT HARD AT ALL!

The satisfaction of doing it yourself with Todd’s excellent setup is so damn satisfying too. You also have the tool for TPS reset for the life of the motorcycle!

Seriously consider it. Read the reviews on the SHOP and here in the FORUM. You will see everyone is insanely happy.
 
Last edited:
scottmastrocinque said:
Performance shop? Forget it.

GO TO THE SOURCE AND GET THE REAL DEAL MY FRIEND!

Have you considered Todd’s ECU flash tool? Then you can get a good solid map from Todd.

https://gtmotocycles.com/collections/fueling/products/gt-motocycles-5am-7sm-reflash-tool

I have Todd’s “Full Monty” setup with the PCV and 2 sensor AT. Best running Stelvio ever for many years now.

https://gtmotocycles.com/collections/fueling/products/gtm-ft-pc-v-at300-ecu-flash-tool

I think it is money well spent not to mention, you will have 2 brand new wide band (far superior) O2 sensors. I have had this at least 8 or 9 years now.

YOU DON’T NEED A MECHANIC TO INSTALL EITHER. YOU CAN EASILY DO THIS YOURSELF. IT IS NOT HARD AT ALL!

The satisfaction of doing it yourself with Todd’s excellent setup is so damn satisfying too. You also have the tool for TPS reset for the life of the motorcycle!

Seriously consider it. Read the reviews on the SHOP and here in the FORUM. You will see everyone is insanely happy.
Click to expand...
AWESOME!

I was thinking about that as well and have actually been researching mapping/diagnostic tools on this forum. I saw the PC-V stuff in the store but I didn't notice the mapping tool. Maybe I just missed it....

I would love to do whole nine yards but don't have the funds for the "Full Monti" set up at the moment. (I would have if I hadn't dropped over $1K letting non Guzzi folks try to track down the damn service light problem, I have to put that in the past and live and learn).

I may be able to sneak enough out of the cookie jar to get Todd's flash tool for a start. Even with the plug caps fixed I still notice some occasional popping and rough running at about 3,000 RPM. This could be the o2 sensor but I think there is more going on. I'm pretty sure I need to have the throttle bodies synced and cleaned and I'm quite sure the injectors need a good cleaning too. I was going to (reluctantly) have that done at the shop while they checked the mapping.. What I really need is some real good diagnostic software and the knowledge to use it! I'm up to the learning curve and I've been researching software tools but I'm not quite sure what to go with or how/where to get it.. So now I have a couple of questions
What would I need in addition to Todd's flash tool for diagnostics other than fueling and mapping and is there any DIY tricks for cleaning the injectors? Remember what I said about old fuel and I am taking your advice as far as the fuel stabilizers. After thinking about it It seems I have heard that from others as well. Not great for FI engines...


So all that said I think this is how I would like to proceed:

Sneak into the cookie jar and grab enough $$ to order Todd's flash tool.
Learn how to use Todd's flash tool.
Download GOOD diagnostic software for the Stelvio. (suggestions?)
Learn how to use said software
Sync and clean throttle bodies and injectors. (performance shop unless I can learn how to do this in my garage and get the necessary tools/equipment to clean injectors)
Save up the $$ for the "full Monti" power commander set up.
Put lots of miles on the Stelvio!

what do you think???
 
V700Steve said:
I have that info, got to look for it. My notes I take from factory releases.

It also may be here on this site, if you look back for it.

OK , got a technical bulletin 11-09-2009 says STA42ZA for ABS
Then on 9/18 I printed the latest mapping posted and it says STV8V52s for the latest
I also have written in ink STV8V52K on the same sheet
In my notes for VDSTS software(it reads a bit different from Navigator, Axone & PADS) stock software.
it says Part#2229 STV8V18
I still use my software I spent $1000 for, Todd used to sell the same stuff but newer Centurion model.

That's all I got from 12yrs ago, don't forget bulletin date is Sept 11th 09 not Nov.
Click to expand...
Thanks Steve!
keeping in mind that I'm an old points and condenser guy, what software would you recommend?
 
KayJay said:
AWESOME!

I was thinking about that as well and have actually been researching mapping/diagnostic tools on this forum. I saw the PC-V stuff in the store but I didn't notice the mapping tool. Maybe I just missed it....

I would love to do whole nine yards but don't have the funds for the "Full Monti" set up at the moment. (I would have if I hadn't dropped over $1K letting non Guzzi folks try to track down the damn service light problem, I have to put that in the past and live and learn).

I may be able to sneak enough out of the cookie jar to get Todd's flash tool for a start. Even with the plug caps fixed I still notice some occasional popping and rough running at about 3,000 RPM. This could be the o2 sensor but I think there is more going on. I'm pretty sure I need to have the throttle bodies synced and cleaned and I'm quite sure the injectors need a good cleaning too. I was going to (reluctantly) have that done at the shop while they checked the mapping.. What I really need is some real good diagnostic software and the knowledge to use it! I'm up to the learning curve and I've been researching software tools but I'm not quite sure what to go with or how/where to get it.. So now I have a couple of questions
What would I need in addition to Todd's flash tool for diagnostics other than fueling and mapping and is there any DIY tricks for cleaning the injectors? Remember what I said about old fuel and I am taking your advice as far as the fuel stabilizers. After thinking about it It seems I have heard that from others as well. Not great for FI engines...


So all that said I think this is how I would like to proceed:

Sneak into the cookie jar and grab enough $$ to order Todd's flash tool.
Learn how to use Todd's flash tool.
Download GOOD diagnostic software for the Stelvio. (suggestions?)
Learn how to use said software
Sync and clean throttle bodies and injectors. (performance shop unless I can learn how to do this in my garage and get the necessary tools/equipment to clean injectors)
Save up the $$ for the "full Monti" power commander set up.
Put lots of miles on the Stelvio!

what do you think???
Click to expand...

Welcome!

Without being taken as being glib and I do apologize for being direct but truly, we don't want to hijack this topic.

I know you have a myriad of questions above and I tell you truthfully, the answer to every question you have set forth above, is covered here in detail in the Stelvio and other FORUMS. SEARCH is your best-friend at this point in time.

This site is meticulously indexed and combed, stickys (highly relevant topics that are pinned at the beginning of every Forum) are abundant and wonderful gems of information, and the SEARCH function, is outstanding and intuitive. You can quickly find virtually anything.

By participating in the topic that you wish to know more about, you learn and your posts in the thread contribute to the knowledge base.

Lastly, Welcome to the world of Moto Guzzi! There really is no shortcut to getting a foundational understanding of what you now own. Literally just about anything you can think of with regard to a Stelvio, has a topic about it.

You need to do some searching and reading to get up to speed. Find the threads, read the posts, gain the knowledge from literally tons of experience. Become part of the repository of knowledge yourself. Then, in those threads where you still have a question, make a post in the topic. People follow certain topics and the Stelvio forum is well travelled and quite often - myself included.

I will tell you this.

I purchased many yeas ago, professional software which was commercially available and supported but sadly they no longer make products for Moto Guzzi anymore, just Harley Davidson. In my case, I own functional software which assists me in doing routine maintenance on my Moto Guzzi Stelvio,

You don't need software like that. You need a good solid verified map for your bikes configuration (stock or modified...) that improves its rideability.

If you desire to do your own maintenance, which is highly doable on a Stelvio, and well documented here, then you need to be able to do a TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) reset.

Todd's simple setup which I gave you the link to the Refresh Tool for like $500, I believe, does all of that.

I believe It's what you need in order to do what I think you are looking for, and nothing more that you don't need.

You can PM me with anything else. Hijack over. Apologies.
 
If you put a pipe on Todd has a very nice map for it. You still have to trim the bottom end(idle mix) so software of some kind is needed. Simple flash box may be the best. I was installing the PC 5 + autotune on all the 8V back when they were new models. That system works very well. Todd also made a very nice pipe for the Stelvio. All it takes is your cookie jar.
My software is not supported by mfg anymore but still works fine, I just keep using this old computer.
The last couple months I did 3 bikes with dual point dizzy on older Guzzi's, they're not all new bikes out there in my world. I only own 1 FI guzzi, the rest have points or Dyna3. Got to keep up w/times if you want to work. I quit and retired now, had my fill.
 
Last edited:
KayJay said:
AWESOME!

I was thinking about that as well and have actually been researching mapping/diagnostic tools on this forum. I saw the PC-V stuff in the store but I didn't notice the mapping tool. Maybe I just missed it....

I would love to do whole nine yards but don't have the funds for the "Full Monti" set up at the moment. (I would have if I hadn't dropped over $1K letting non Guzzi folks try to track down the damn service light problem, I have to put that in the past and live and learn).

I may be able to sneak enough out of the cookie jar to get Todd's flash tool for a start. Even with the plug caps fixed I still notice some occasional popping and rough running at about 3,000 RPM. This could be the o2 sensor but I think there is more going on. I'm pretty sure I need to have the throttle bodies synced and cleaned and I'm quite sure the injectors need a good cleaning too. I was going to (reluctantly) have that done at the shop while they checked the mapping.. What I really need is some real good diagnostic software and the knowledge to use it! I'm up to the learning curve and I've been researching software tools but I'm not quite sure what to go with or how/where to get it.. So now I have a couple of questions
What would I need in addition to Todd's flash tool for diagnostics other than fueling and mapping and is there any DIY tricks for cleaning the injectors? Remember what I said about old fuel and I am taking your advice as far as the fuel stabilizers. After thinking about it It seems I have heard that from others as well. Not great for FI engines...


So all that said I think this is how I would like to proceed:

Sneak into the cookie jar and grab enough $$ to order Todd's flash tool.
Learn how to use Todd's flash tool.
Download GOOD diagnostic software for the Stelvio. (suggestions?)
Learn how to use said software
Sync and clean throttle bodies and injectors. (performance shop unless I can learn how to do this in my garage and get the necessary tools/equipment to clean injectors)
Save up the $$ for the "full Monti" power commander set up.
Put lots of miles on the Stelvio!

what do you think???
Click to expand...
scottmastrocinque said:
Performance shop? Forget it.

GO TO THE SOURCE AND GET THE REAL DEAL MY FRIEND!

Have you considered Todd’s ECU flash tool? Then you can get a good solid map from Todd.

https://gtmotocycles.com/collections/fueling/products/gt-motocycles-5am-7sm-reflash-tool

I have Todd’s “Full Monty” setup with the PCV and 2 sensor AT. Best running Stelvio ever for many years now.

https://gtmotocycles.com/collections/fueling/products/gtm-ft-pc-v-at300-ecu-flash-tool

I think it is money well spent not to mention, you will have 2 brand new wide band (far superior) O2 sensors. I have had this at least 8 or 9 years now.

YOU DON’T NEED A MECHANIC TO INSTALL EITHER. YOU CAN EASILY DO THIS YOURSELF. IT IS NOT HARD AT ALL!

The satisfaction of doing it yourself with Todd’s excellent setup is so damn satisfying too. You also have the tool for TPS reset for the life of the motorcycle!

Seriously consider it. Read the reviews on the SHOP and here in the FORUM. You will see everyone is insanely happy.
Click to expand...
scottmastrocinque said:
Welcome!

Without being taken as being glib and I do apologize for being direct but truly, we don't want to hijack this topic.

I know you have a myriad of questions above and I tell you truthfully, the answer to every question you have set forth above, is covered here in detail in the Stelvio and other FORUMS. SEARCH is your best-friend at this point in time.

This site is meticulously indexed and combed, stickys (highly relevant topics that are pinned at the beginning of every Forum) are abundant and wonderful gems of information, and the SEARCH function, is outstanding and intuitive. You can quickly find virtually anything.

By participating in the topic that you wish to know more about, you learn and your posts in the thread contribute to the knowledge base.

Lastly, Welcome to the world of Moto Guzzi! There really is no shortcut to getting a foundational understanding of what you now own. Literally just about anything you can think of with regard to a Stelvio, has a topic about it.

You need to do some searching and reading to get up to speed. Find the threads, read the posts, gain the knowledge from literally tons of experience. Become part of the repository of knowledge yourself. Then, in those threads where you still have a question, make a post in the topic. People follow certain topics and the Stelvio forum is well travelled and quite often - myself included.

I will tell you this.

I purchased many yeas ago, professional software which was commercially available and supported but sadly they no longer make products for Moto Guzzi anymore, just Harley Davidson. In my case, I own functional software which assists me in doing routine maintenance on my Moto Guzzi Stelvio,

You don't need software like that. You need a good solid verified map for your bikes configuration (stock or modified...) that improves its rideability.

If you desire to do your own maintenance, which is highly doable on a Stelvio, and well documented here, then you need to be able to do a TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) reset.

Todd's simple setup which I gave you the link to the Refresh Tool for like $500, I believe, does all of that.

I believe It's what you need in order to do what I think you are looking for, and nothing more that you don't need.

You can PM me with anything else. Hijack over. Apologies.
Click to expand...
Hijack over? I'm not sure I understand. I certainly didn't mean to hijack anything.
I hear ya as far as the search tool being my best friend. I have spent countless hours searching this and other forums to gain the knowledge necessary to perform my own maintenance and minor repairs. That said I had no intention of hijacking the topic nor do I think I did. I simply asked about the re flash tool you suggested and if I would still need additional software before making a $500.00 purchase. The other related question was about FI cleaning equipment such as the motion pro since a search for that tool or others like it on this forum came up with no results. I then mentioned my plan to purchase the reflash tool as well as additional software if necessary. Anyway your advice and recommendations as well as that from others on this and other forums is invaluable and GREATLY appreciated.
THANKS...
 
KayJay said:
Hijack over? I'm not sure I understand. I certainly didn't mean to hijack anything.
Click to expand...
You didn't, Scott was saying he was.
My flash tool handles most of the Diagnostic things you'll need to do, so nothing else is needed. You can DIY for a basic injector cleaner like the MP version, however for a true and professional service that can measure and balance them in addition to a real cleaning service, the best out there is rcfuelinjection.com -- some people have found similar services locally to them. Hope that helps.
 
Thanks Todd!

Yes, I didn't mean to hijack the topic. It was about me.

You have a lot to work with now KayJay. If you have any other questions, give a shout out via Private Message. I'll do my best to give you a good answer!
 
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