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Stalling

Discussion in 'BNS12 Chat & Tech' started by Kevin.NZ, Jul 25, 2010.

  1. Kevin.NZ

    Kevin.NZ Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    I have an 07 Breva 1100 with 30,000Kms on the clock, in the last few weeks it has started to play up. The bike starts and will drive fine untill I come to a stop at say a set of lights where the engine will just die unless I keep the revs up. Once it starts it will tick over fine. The TPS is 4.5 degrees and the carb balance is spot on at idle and 3000 rpm. I have fitted a stepper motor bypass and it does this with it on or off and there are no error codes either. On occasion when coming to a stop I have noticed the revs droping below 1100 to about 700 and then pick up. I thought I had a dodgy tank of fuel but have since refilled with the usual 95 octane here in New Zealand, any ideas?
    Cheers Kevin
     
  2. john zibell

    john zibell Moderator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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    Since it is your winter season, it may be condensation in the tank. Have you tried a little dry gas to put the water in suspension and burn it out? Also technical note 013-2006 covers the Breva stalling issue. I don't have it electronically, but maybe someone can provide a link at Servicemotoguzzi for it. My bike would sometimes stall until the latest map was installed. For the 1100 Breva the map should end in V12.
     
  3. Mike.C

    Mike.C GT Reference

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    I would put some Techron injector cleaner through it as a suck it and see.
     
  4. Kevin.NZ

    Kevin.NZ Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    HI ,
    How do I find the information on the Map currently installed on the Breva. I do have the VDST software
    Cheers Kevin
     
  5. john zibell

    john zibell Moderator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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    In dashboard mode, it will be at the bottom of the screen. Also under view, system information I believe.
     
  6. Kevin.NZ

    Kevin.NZ Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Hi John,
    I went to View-system information and next to Calib was 2230BA10, there are a load of other numbers on the page but nothing with V12 in its line. A Prog date of 28092005, so I would say I dont have the latest V12. A trip to the dealer this weekend I think.
    Thanks Kevin
     
  7. john zibell

    john zibell Moderator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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    Kevin,

    The A10 is the original map. Be sure the dealer does a TPS reset after he loads the new map. It is part of the procedure.
     
  8. rturo

    rturo Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    My local dealer in England tells me there is only the original map for my Breva1100 - I told him I'd read otherwise and he mailed GuzziUK and they confirmed that there was no new map. My original dealer wasnt very helpful other than to say that any later map could be installed as part of an injection/TPS min- service ... for many £££/$$$ of course..

    I recall that Pete Roper offered up a couple of dealers in England that were good guys .. I will look them up even though they are many miles away ... the only other option is to take the plunge and buy the VDSTS and do it myself..

    Art
     
  9. john zibell

    john zibell Moderator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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    The problem is you can't update the map with VDSTS. It must be an up to date Axone or Navigator to install the latest map. VDSTS will do everything else though.
     
  10. Leon d

    Leon d Just got it firing!

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    Hi People, does anyone have any further information on the stalling issue. I have just joined this site, however I have had my Breva for 2 years and it was new in Singapore Jan 2010. It has just started stalling after throttling back and pulling in clutch. It started intermittent and now is nearly every time unless I carefully keep revs up or let it nearly stall in gear before pulling clutch in.

    It has just had a full service done, new plugs, oil, air and fuel filters, valve clearances, all fluids - still stalling however now it also backfires strongly on throttle off.

    Thanks
    Leon
     
  11. Rafael

    Rafael GT Reference

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    My buddy and I have the A10 map, it was updated at the 2010 national rally in Oregon. So there must have been an earlier map on our bikes.

    My buddy's bike started having idle speed problems, turned out that he did not empty the condensate dump tube. The goo backed up and started clogging the stepper motor and getting into the TBS. After emptying, idle problem clear up after a couple of rides.

    Maybe spray cleaner like Sea Foam through the air bypass.
     
  12. Kevin.NZ

    Kevin.NZ Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    I never did get the updated map as the local dealer closed shop, but I have stopped the stalling and popping. I put the stepper motor is back in circuit but the main change was to cheat the TPS, instead of 4.5, mine is now set to about 6.0. The bike runs so much better and a lot cooler as I have measured the exhaust temps before and after the change. I read about the "fix" from someone else and posted how to do it on here a while ago, its very easy but you do need the VDST and manometers. Fuel consumption is good at about 5L/100Km and the idle is 1100RPM, I have done over 25,000Kms with it on these settings with no problems.
    Cheers Kevin
     
  13. nel

    nel Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Thks kevin for the closure. My 06 B11 suffered from this new (dealer fixed it tps 3.6) and now it's come back when the bike gets hot. Last time I looked tps was at 4.2 can you increment it with that Techno. software? When I've reset tps in the past it just finds its own level. Mine drips oil out of the bottom on the rh throttle body when oil level high. The drain might be blocked. Can you elaborate on your fix process?
     
  14. john zibell

    john zibell Moderator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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    First fix the oil problem. The recommended amount is too much. Also make sure the oil drain from the airbox is not plugged at the top. Are you opening the drain tube periodically to allow the oil to go out? I've not had an issue with stalling on bikes with the V12 map, correct oil level, and properly functioning stepper motor.
     
  15. Kevin.NZ

    Kevin.NZ Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    After much searching i found it; hope it works for you , it certainly works for me. Hopefully if/when i get an updated map i can reset it back to 4.6


    Re: Backfire fix

    Postby Kevin.NZ » Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:40 pm
    Hi Guys,
    On my 07 Breva 1100 I had awful backfiring on overrun and the bike would often stall when coming to a stop at say a set of lights. Everything was spot on, TPS, tappets, plugs, engine/air temp sensor and injector balance using a homemade manometer, even with a stepper motor bypass fitted. I had a feeling it was fuel related as it only happened after the engine had warmed up.
    Anyway after much searching I came across this link, (see below) followed the instructions and set mine to 6.6 degrees and it has solved all my problems, I have even put the stepper motor back in. Fuel consumption is still good at around 5.3 Lit/100Km on a run.
    Cheers Kevin

    Title: Re: Griso/Breva ECU questions
    Post by: John in PA on March 02, 2009, 05:52:51 AM

    My understanding is that improved maps for late model bikes are now, or soon, available to be downloaded from tha Axone. I don't know if they totally eliminate the problem, but I believe they're supposed to substantially address the problem.

    A while back I devised a way to fool the ECU into resetting the TPS voltage and enrichening the bottom end slightly which decreases popping on decell till a more permanent fix is found. Here's a cut-n-paste from my recent post on this procedure. You need Technoresearch VDSTS or Axone to do this.


    The tuning software sets the TPS voltage to 4.6 degrees at idle. If you have access to technoresearch or axone, you can force the computer to reset the TPS a couple degrees high to richen the mixture slightly. The TPS is on the right throttlebody, the adjustment for balancing the throttle bodies is on the left side of the bar that links the two TB's.
    1. verify that throttle bodies are balanced, if not, adjust before continuing.
    2. Hook up software, read, and adjust if necessary, throttle bodies to 4.6 degrees.
    3. With software still hooked up, observing tps voltage, UNBALANCE the TB's , dropping the reading by a couple degrees, say down to 3 degrees plus/minus. Do not adjust the allen screw on the left that acts as a throttle stop for both sides, only the adjuster on the linkage bar connecting the tb's.
    4. Once the new TPS reading shows, reset the TPS baseline back to 4.6 degrees.
    5. now rebalance the TB's and recheck TPS setting displayed. Should be 6-6.5 degrees. If not, repeat steps 3,4,5 of above procedure with minor tweaking of the unbalance setting till desired voltage appears after rebalance.

    The new higher baseline voltage tricks the computer into thinking the throttle is slightly open, so it will supply more fuel.
    Note: If you set the baseline TPS too high (like 7-ish?), then the computer starts to advance the timing and idle will start to race. If that happens, just decrease the reset baseline a bit.

    Note: Jason Speaker told me that the latest Axone software update has an alternate mapping for all the recent FI bikes, if you get the computer remapped, it may eliminate the need for this work-around (or maybe not??)

    Hope this helps. I figured out the procedure myself, and have gotten good feedback from those that have tried it. It may not totally eliminate popping, especially if you have a free-flow mufler installed, but it reduces it considerably till a better map, or powercommander, etc, becomes available.

    http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?ac ... ic=23916.0
     

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