Love the TT as well! The tires, bags and don't forget the handguards make it look the part at least. BMW however is one step ahead with the 800GS. A nice lighter version of its big brother. How about a small block 850 in a slightly smaller (lighter) package? Seems that would be good for here and across the pond!
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Stelvio TT
- Thread starter RJVB
- Start date
I thought we deviated a bit from the dual-sport range. Aprilia has at least one in the smaller cc segment (Pegaso, the Caponord is a 1000cc). I agree that there, Guzzi offering is unlikely. But mind you, when first announced, the Stelvio would come in 1200cc and 850cc variants!
Hey: 2 days ago I was told by my dealer , here in Toronto that the 'TT' will be a limited edition for 2009. But presently they had no idea as to the MSRP.
Aprilia also has a 405 550 enduro/dirt machine, they used to build the BMW XChallenge. Any of these bikes could be made into a smaller dual sport. The 850 Stelvio would most likly be the same physical size as the 1200. I think it has something to do with insurance cost in Europe.
Sorry to hear the TT will be limited in production. That will just make it more expensive and harder to get!
Sorry to hear the TT will be limited in production. That will just make it more expensive and harder to get!
If that's the current model, I've seen it looking less japanese not so long ago...
waspp, what's that about insurance? Stick a 125cc engine into a Stelvio frame, and insurance will go down proportionally. There are countries here that apply 'road taxes' that increase with the vehicle's weight, but how does this get into a discussion whether or not there might be a smaller Stelvio (motor and possibly cycle)?
waspp, what's that about insurance? Stick a 125cc engine into a Stelvio frame, and insurance will go down proportionally. There are countries here that apply 'road taxes' that increase with the vehicle's weight, but how does this get into a discussion whether or not there might be a smaller Stelvio (motor and possibly cycle)?
guzzirider
Cruisin' Guzzisti
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2008
- Messages
- 160
Well I think the answer to the overall question of whether ther will be a smaller Stelvio is unlikely- maybe a sleeved down 850 weighing the same is the closest we will get.
The current small block motor make makes about 41bhp at the back wheel- plenty for fans of these little motors but not enough to excite potential buyers who want smaller bikes with plenty of poke.
Shame really- it was a V65 Lario than drew me to Guzzi 20 years ago when I was 20 years old- it was 120mph fast, good looking and handled well- that is what youngsters like. What is there now in the Guzzi range that will draw in new younger blood to the marque?
The current small block motor make makes about 41bhp at the back wheel- plenty for fans of these little motors but not enough to excite potential buyers who want smaller bikes with plenty of poke.
Shame really- it was a V65 Lario than drew me to Guzzi 20 years ago when I was 20 years old- it was 120mph fast, good looking and handled well- that is what youngsters like. What is there now in the Guzzi range that will draw in new younger blood to the marque?
Bah, what's "youngsters" mean? And in that context, good-looking ... would mean agressive-looking?
I agree it's probably something most under 25 (or so) will be attracted to. Some of those (ahem) never grow up (or should I say remain young at heart?? see here for an example :silly
. Some do ... and then might realise that 41bhp really is enough in most circumstances ... and some get there pretty quickly (I think we've had or even have members under 30, not so?).
You're forgetting finances, btw. How many potential buyers looking for a smaller bike that's fast, good looking and handles well have the cash to buy a machine that gives that using (no insult meant partly somewhat antiquated technology and that's hand-assembled in a small historical factory — all that because we-the-current-clientele want(ed) it that way?
Add finances to your equation, and you have the explanation why even if Italy is Guzzi's main market, they're not exactly popular there, but seen as too expensive for too heavy, underpowered machines.
Completely independent of the "smaller bike" argument: The G8v IMHO does have the appeal to attract new younger blood on $st€roids
to the marque ... and could well used as a basis for a big-brother to the V7 Classic range (that'd be a V11 Classic ... possibly called V12?).
As a case in point: Olivier whom some of you have known/met when he was in California last year and rode a B11 (he's in the pics linked to above). He told me yesterday he's buying another Guzzi, something he'd been looking to do since coming back. For reasons not known to me, he's *not* getting a modern one, but a 2004 V11 Café Sport instead. And again, yes, I do realise that those are not smaller bikes...
(Oh, and re: young at heart: I'd hope that goes for most all of us here )
I agree it's probably something most under 25 (or so) will be attracted to. Some of those (ahem) never grow up (or should I say remain young at heart?? see here for an example :silly
. Some do ... and then might realise that 41bhp really is enough in most circumstances ... and some get there pretty quickly (I think we've had or even have members under 30, not so?).You're forgetting finances, btw. How many potential buyers looking for a smaller bike that's fast, good looking and handles well have the cash to buy a machine that gives that using (no insult meant
partly somewhat antiquated technology and that's hand-assembled in a small historical factory — all that because we-the-current-clientele want(ed) it that way?Add finances to your equation, and you have the explanation why even if Italy is Guzzi's main market, they're not exactly popular there, but seen as too expensive for too heavy, underpowered machines.
Completely independent of the "smaller bike" argument: The G8v IMHO does have the appeal to attract new younger blood on $st€roids
to the marque ... and could well used as a basis for a big-brother to the V7 Classic range (that'd be a V11 Classic ... possibly called V12?).As a case in point: Olivier whom some of you have known/met when he was in California last year and rode a B11 (he's in the pics linked to above). He told me yesterday he's buying another Guzzi, something he'd been looking to do since coming back. For reasons not known to me, he's *not* getting a modern one, but a 2004 V11 Café Sport instead. And again, yes, I do realise that those are not smaller bikes...
(Oh, and re: young at heart: I'd hope that goes for most all of us here
)
Strewth this is all getting too complicated for me!
I said at the outset that the idea of a smaller Stelvio appealed, and the reason is simple - where I want to go a lighter bike would be easier to handle.. period. Nothin in it about being young at heart or wanting Horse Power, just plain and simple when it falls over, which will be often given my riding skills, picking a big bike up might become a problem when we go down for the 5th time in a day.
Problem is I really want it to be a Guzzi - call me one eyed or blinkered but that is just the way it is, so that's it...... and in the end a lot of people have been in remote places with big heavy bikes and have lived to tell the tale, so I recon I am going to have a go on the 1200 - stay tuned!
(Unless of course Guzzi comes out with an F800GS killer - now that would be something to yak about)
I said at the outset that the idea of a smaller Stelvio appealed, and the reason is simple - where I want to go a lighter bike would be easier to handle.. period. Nothin in it about being young at heart or wanting Horse Power, just plain and simple when it falls over, which will be often given my riding skills, picking a big bike up might become a problem when we go down for the 5th time in a day.
Problem is I really want it to be a Guzzi - call me one eyed or blinkered but that is just the way it is, so that's it...... and in the end a lot of people have been in remote places with big heavy bikes and have lived to tell the tale, so I recon I am going to have a go on the 1200 - stay tuned!
(Unless of course Guzzi comes out with an F800GS killer - now that would be something to yak about)
I'm not sure of the reason but Guzzi does make an 850 Griso, Norge etc for sale in Europe. I thought it had something to do with insurance or maybe tax because as Guzzirider said they are justt a de-bored 1200.
Size does matter and in the case of a dual sport bigger isn't always better! I had a BMW XChallenge and loved the bike but my trail riding is mostly that trail riding and the XChallenge was a bit to tall and large. I ended up with a nice DR350 which is great for the tight rough stuff but not so great if you want to go any distance.
I think a small block dual sport would do well , but the expense to design a new higher performance engine makes it unlikely. Would it be unthinkable to modify and rebadge an Aprilia as a Moto Guzzi mid size dual sport? Is the love affair with the Moto Guzzi or the sidways V twin? If Guzzi is to attract new generation to its product it seems the product line should expand out as well. Guzzi has had other engine configurations in the past why not now?
Size does matter and in the case of a dual sport bigger isn't always better! I had a BMW XChallenge and loved the bike but my trail riding is mostly that trail riding and the XChallenge was a bit to tall and large. I ended up with a nice DR350 which is great for the tight rough stuff but not so great if you want to go any distance.
I think a small block dual sport would do well , but the expense to design a new higher performance engine makes it unlikely. Would it be unthinkable to modify and rebadge an Aprilia as a Moto Guzzi mid size dual sport? Is the love affair with the Moto Guzzi or the sidways V twin? If Guzzi is to attract new generation to its product it seems the product line should expand out as well. Guzzi has had other engine configurations in the past why not now?
Speaking for France only: 850cc (less powerful) engines cost less in insurance, that's a fact. They also have a different behaviour: the internals are (somewhat) lighter, and they rev (somewhat) easier and (maybe, a bit) higher. In all, they're just a bit more nervous, from what I gleaned, and maybe just that bit more adapted to our urban kind of traffic. We had an Italian member from Rome riding a 850cc Norge some time ago, and he was quite happy with the bike in Roman traffic. Which is even worse than Parisian traffic — and I really hate to take my 1200cc Norge into town. You want an automatic transmission for that: it's not for nothing that scooters rule here.
Concerning other engine configurations: see Todd's remarks above. I agree that a big part of Guzzi's identity lies in the transverse V-Twin concept. Guzzi doesn't really have the other idiosyncrasies that set BMW apart like the switch-gear (allowing them to have, what, 4 different engine types, not all of which are in-house products?). Air-cooled is another aspect, maybe (hopefully, given emissions laws!) less stringent. But I have no issues personally with the idea of adapting an existing Piaggio-owned design to the transverse 90º VTwin configuration and coupling it to a Guzzi transmission and driveline.
Which reminds me: I read somewhere, recently, that Guzzi big blocks can afford to remain air-cooled because, well, they're big, have much of their power down low and in general don't really rev very high. Oh, and they're also not all that powerful in terms of bare ponies. Those arguments are decreasingly true the smaller the engine gets while preserving power. Probably a reason we're not seeing much evolution in the small-block range.
Out of curiosity: how much did those nice little V35 engines produce, and how much could reasonably be expected from a scaled-down version of the current 1200cc 2-valver?
Concerning other engine configurations: see Todd's remarks above. I agree that a big part of Guzzi's identity lies in the transverse V-Twin concept. Guzzi doesn't really have the other idiosyncrasies that set BMW apart like the switch-gear (allowing them to have, what, 4 different engine types, not all of which are in-house products?). Air-cooled is another aspect, maybe (hopefully, given emissions laws!) less stringent. But I have no issues personally with the idea of adapting an existing Piaggio-owned design to the transverse 90º VTwin configuration and coupling it to a Guzzi transmission and driveline.
Which reminds me: I read somewhere, recently, that Guzzi big blocks can afford to remain air-cooled because, well, they're big, have much of their power down low and in general don't really rev very high. Oh, and they're also not all that powerful in terms of bare ponies. Those arguments are decreasingly true the smaller the engine gets while preserving power. Probably a reason we're not seeing much evolution in the small-block range.
Out of curiosity: how much did those nice little V35 engines produce, and how much could reasonably be expected from a scaled-down version of the current 1200cc 2-valver?
loftyjohn
Cruisin' Guzzisti
Hi Gang
I thought Big Tax had gone over the top a little
How about this
Ok so i'm no picasso, but lt looks much better don't you think
Loftyjohn
I thought Big Tax had gone over the top a little
How about this
Ok so i'm no picasso, but lt looks much better don't you think
Loftyjohn
Gary
Cruisin' Guzzisti
It could look like Pamela Anderson without her clothes, but if it's got the same head/cam.............
Know what I mean Loftyjohn.
I'm still riding the old dragon st1100, wont set the world on fire, may be pop it a few blue tabs, see what happens.
Know what I mean Loftyjohn.
I'm still riding the old dragon st1100, wont set the world on fire, may be pop it a few blue tabs, see what happens.
Guess I haven't shared the latest here. Stella gets a nose job v2.0
Lights are PIAA 510's mounted on the factory crashbars using generic clamps from the local harley dealer and some 2 inch angle aluminum. I'm on the road right now but can take some close ups later this week if anyone is interested.
These are the "Ion" lenses with the funky multi-color look. They don't do a lot for lighting up the road but they are very noticeable (my primary goal).
Sure is nice of MG to have the wiring and switch all set up for us to mount fogs.
These are the "Ion" lenses with the funky multi-color look. They don't do a lot for lighting up the road but they are very noticeable (my primary goal).
Sure is nice of MG to have the wiring and switch all set up for us to mount fogs.
Yeah. It is. The Norge has the same switchgear (at least on the right handle bar), but where the switch would go we just have a little cover.
I had my first ride in significant fog last Sunday, which extended to after sundown. I really ought to get me a couple of extra lights to help with that, and after-dark twisties and round-abouts! Not sure what to get, though; most lights seem more geared to being seen than to help seeing...
I had my first ride in significant fog last Sunday, which extended to after sundown. I really ought to get me a couple of extra lights to help with that, and after-dark twisties and round-abouts! Not sure what to get, though; most lights seem more geared to being seen than to help seeing...