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Uh Oh Norge service light

D

draidt

High Miler
GT Contributor
Joined
Sep 22, 2009
Messages
964
Location
Hernando, FL
The dreaded service light and triangle has occurred three times in the last 2 days. Only shows up after the light show, dash board error codes are A08 and M08 which indicates oil pressure failure. I have not seen the oil can symbol on the dash with it running. I have ordered a Oil Pressure sending unit from MPH and will give that a try before hitting the sky is falling button. :woohoo: :woohoo: It is an 07 with a 07 build date. If the condition still persists after the new unit I am debating whether to do it my self or take it to a reputable dealer to tear it down to the oil pump to see if the housing is cracked. Needless to say the bike will not see the road again until the issue is resolved. It has been a trouble free 15,000 miles till now. I spoke to Todd at MPH and he told me they have changed out the sending unit on a few bikes and it has seemingly resolved the problem. Can I be so lucky ????

When people ask me why do I have 3 bikes my stock answer is at least one will be always ready to ride, Point proven ! :lol:
 
Dan, Oil pump removal is not hard. When I pulled mine the housing looked fine,the rotor failed on mine.Came out in pieces. 24K miles, late 06 build.
 
Matteo said:
Dan, Oil pump removal is not hard. When I pulled mine the housing looked fine,the rotor failed on mine.Came out in pieces. 24K miles, late 06 build.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the reply, Question I have is after the timing case is off what gears have to be pulled ? I am hoping just the oil pump gear and I see from the exploded parts diagram there is a nut that comes off and then there is a keyway pin. Did you have to use a gear puller ? Appreciate any help you can give me as to what is or is not necessary in the teardown.
 
The only puller I needed was for the belt pulley, after unbolting the others came off by hand. You have to do this to get the chain off before you can yank the pump. Just line up the gear marks before removing cam and crank gears. It all goes back together easy.
 
Oh, oh.

I went through 3 OP sensors in the hope that it was the light not the pump. Hope is not a method.

FWIW, I rarely got the oil-can symbol, but did get the red light frequently, tho it usually shut off in seconds when rpm's got up.

I see that jon (blackbuell) is on the road with his after similar, but not identical reports, so we shall see. At least his is at Rider's Hill now, but don't know if they will pull the pump. I sure as heck would.

My Norge is hors de combat now, too, but only with a cracked collector pipe I mentioned elsewhere. As you say, having fleet -- tho mine is smaller than the Liechtenstein navy! -- helps. The EV may be long in the tooth, but she's still a Guzzi and a joy. Kathi and I will take her to the mountains this weekend and have a fine time trundling along at 8 x trireme ramming speed.

Keep us posted on your metallic surgery.

Bill
 
Don't worry.
In my opinion it's the oilpressure sensor. It sometimes fails. I had the same with my Breva 1200 too. Failure comes more and more often. The only solution is to replace it for a new one. I had to replace mine after 3 years and 20000 km. So I think it has nothing to do with the oilpump.
For me the fastest and most easy way to do it was to remove the left exhaustpipe. But I don't no the amount of work of removing the leftside bodywork. Removing tank, airbox, etc. is pretty much work. SUCCESS!!
 
The oil pressure switch has been a bugbear of Guzzis since the days of the Nuovo Falcone. Now, you can winge on until hell freezes over about how it 'Should of been fixed' but the fact remains that up until the adoption of the *Newer* switch which is essentially the same item but with a different plug on the top, used on the 8V's and maybe some of the later 4V's it was a constant sourc of grief.

The reason for trepidation with early Norges is because there was obviously a short run of poorly finished pump rotors which when installed were prone to causing catastrophic failures.

NOT ALL OF THEM!

The failure rate is, statistically, very low. And the the bikes that experience the problem seem to be all pretty closely grouped production wise and, as far as I know, are all red! Another inication that it was a batch problem.

All that is trying to be disemminated by the continued refference to this issue is that in the very early days of Norge, (No other bikes seem to be effected.) production there was a problem with a few pumps. If you own and early Norge, especially a low mileage one, and doubly especially if its red, and the service light starts coming on regularly or more particularly you get the 'Oil Can' symbol on the dash while running? Then it is *A GOOD IDEA* to get the oil pump inspected.

Chances are if your late model Guzzi's dash throws up an oil prssure error it is down to a crappy switch, but if a new one doesn't cure it?????? well, try pricing up a crank, rods and all major bearing and see if you're 'Feeling Lucky, Punk! Well! Are you????'

Your choice. My profit if you bring the wreck to me!!!!! :mrgreen:

Pete
 
The odds are that it is a doggy switch by the way it is acting, I can go in the menu system and look at the errors and it is clear with the bike idling, Turn off the bike wait a few seconds turn just the key on and after the light show the service light and triangle come on. Go back into the the menu and A08 and M08 are marked. Not every time. I am thinking the switch is a bit lazy in activating OR deactivating and with the ECU programmed to look at it with a certain time frame to say pass or fail. Would probably never become even noticed on say my Cal Vin where it just acts as an on off switch without a computer looking at it.

Like I said the Switch should come today and I already have siphoned the fuel out of the tank in preparation for removal. Very frustrating as I can see the switch but be damned about how to remove it with the access there is. The new switch will get one shot at proving the old one bad. Then the bike will be rolled on the lift for surgery.

Like Pete said it is an 07 and RED, but does have an 07 build date.

Thanks for the offer Pete but it would get kind of pricey to have the motor shipped to you :mrgreen: There are about 4 or 5 people who I would have the work done by if I didn't think I can do it myself and Mr. Pete is right up there on the list.
 
My red 07 is getting a new oil pump next week (and a new oil pressure sensor).

It's got to be that RED color ;)
 
Nick, If you can remove the rotor from your oil pump check for breaks. If so please file a NHSTA complaint.

Thanks
Matt
 
Draidt, from an earlier post I see your ser # is 3013. Can we have month as well as year of build date? I'm guessing maybe 2/07, which would be 3-4 months later than the 10-11/06 failure cluster. Since you haven't yet seen the oil can, perhaps we should classify yours as uncertain until you replace the sensor/tear it down. We'll look forward to your further reports.

Nick, from an earlier post I see your bike is #2303 & build date 11/06, clearly in the danger zone along with Bill's & Matteo's. However I have seen nothing indicating symptoms. Are there any, or is this just preemptive? If the latter, given your build date I don't blame you.

Bill, about Jon/blackbuell, the only current thread I see on that is over on WG, & refers to a neutral light issue. Earlier posts (Feb 19) mention triangle & oil pressure codes, but no sign of oil can, & nothing about triangle on his current extended trip, just the neutral light thing. This is an '09 Norge, so lets really hope this is not an oil pump issue.
 
guzzibob said:
Nick, from an earlier post I see your bike is #2303 & build date 11/06, clearly in the danger zone along with Bill's & Matteo's. However I have seen nothing indicating symptoms. Are there any, or is this just preemptive? If the latter, given your build date I don't blame you.
Click to expand...

I've actually been getting the following DSB errors:

Fuel sensor fault DSB 05. Sporadically
Air temperature sensor fault DSB 06 Periodically
Oil sensor fault DSB 07 Frequently
Oil pressure fault DSB 08 Frequently

Got a new air temp sensor, but the error keeps on coming back.
Got a new oil sensor and a new oil pump (and related gaskets) and will have Spare Parts Co. in Philly do the repair/install (I'm actually dropping the bike off tomorrow morning).

I have been riding the EV and the Tuono lately, but with the rally season approaching, I decided to get the Norge sorted out and back on the road.

Nick
 
Hmmmm, I suppose the oil sensor fault & oil pressure faults could be related. Ie the first causing the 2nd. Guess we'll find out soon enough when the pump gets replaced. It'll either be in pieces like the known failures, or not.
 
My service lamp came on for a while with no service codes of any kind and no oil can. After my last long day trip I noticed for the first time in a while a lack of red light. Knock on wood It has not come back.
 
guzzibob said:
Hmmmm, I suppose the oil sensor fault & oil pressure faults could be related. Ie the first causing the 2nd. Guess we'll find out soon enough when the pump gets replaced. It'll either be in pieces like the known failures, or not.
Click to expand...
If I had not been aware of what happened to the others I would have only changed the oil pressure sensor. But, since I plan on adding at least 10K miles on the Norge this year, and my bike's build date was right there in the middle of them all, I decided to take this route. I'll find out sometime next week.......
 
Got my Norge back a couple of days ago. Believe it or not, the oil pump was not broken, but was replaced with a new one anyway. The oil pressure sensor was also replaced with a new one.
I took it out for a 250 mile run today and no errors.
Yes I did spend approx. $1,200 for the job, but now I feel somewhat at ease, without having the "imminent" catastrophe hanging over my head whenever I took the Norge out.

Nick
 
Nick, good news indeed (other than your out of pocket expense), both for you & the rest of us, pretty clearly a sensor fault rather than a broken oil pump. Though even if it was the oil pump, given your build date not really meaningful for any bike outside of the 10-11/06 danger zone. Time for you to just ride it & enjoy it, no more worrying.

Anybody know what the final resolution with Draidt's bike was? Oil pump yes or no? What build date if yes?

As more time goes on & we do not really see any new known bad oil pumps despite mileage accumulation, esp outside of 10-11/06, looking more & more like the pumps that are going to fail probably have already done so, other than perhaps the odd "hanger queen" bike that mostly just sits in the garage. I'm certainly pretty secure about my 6/07 build date '07 red Norge, up to 27k miles, & never any of the worrisome indicators.
 
guzzibob said:
Nick, good news indeed (other than your out of pocket expense), both for you & the rest of us, pretty clearly a sensor fault rather than a broken oil pump. Though even if it was the oil pump, given your build date not really meaningful for any bike outside of the 10-11/06 danger zone. Time for you to just ride it & enjoy it, no more worrying.

Anybody know what the final resolution with Draidt's bike was? Oil pump yes or no? What build date if yes?

As more time goes on & we do not really see any new known bad oil pumps despite mileage accumulation, esp outside of 10-11/06, looking more & more like the pumps that are going to fail probably have already done so, other than perhaps the odd "hanger queen" bike that mostly just sits in the garage. I'm certainly pretty secure about my 6/07 build date '07 red Norge, up to 27k miles, & never any of the worrisome indicators.
Click to expand...


Bob

Thankfully it was the sender, After I removed and replaced it with a new one there have been no service dash light. I have since tested the old unit with some air pressure. A dead short ( normal ) with no pressure add some air pressure to simulate oil pressure and it went to an open circuit ( again Normal) BUT every 4 or 5 cycles it would not return to a dead short it would measure about 150,000 ohms and no amount of shaking or tapping the unit would make it come back to a dead short only the application and removal of air pressure. Most expensive part of the repair was a special order 21mm deep offset craftsmen box wrench. This allowed this chicken shit to not have to remove the left side header and phase sensor.

My build date is 03/07 again thankfully.
 
OK, excellent. Again, we have like half a dozen failures in the US, exactly 1 of which was not 10-11/06 build date, & a few more in Europe, as far as I know all 10-11/06, although there sure could be others we haven't heard about in the English speaking world. Looking better & better all the time.
 
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