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V10 Check Lamp

Discussion in 'Spine' started by Ray1150, Feb 28, 2021.

  1. Ray1150

    Ray1150 Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Famiglia

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    So, got the bike out the other day, it started & ran for a bit gave a cough and died, long story short, no spark.
    I had a spare phase sensor and although the one on the bike was showing 680 ohms, I changed it just in case - still no spark.
    Check lamp & socket.jpg
    There is an RPM sensor listed too, also a magneti marelli SEN813 (buy the Fiat part, a lot cheaper) but I can't see it, the diagrammatic shows it on the inside of the left hand pot, am I looking in the right place?

    Anyway, all faults should be revealed by the check light, my only question here is what am I plugging it into, the manuals clear as fog and the lamp wires go into the ecu plug (see pic). Do you just shove a paper clip into two of the terminals like suzukis, if so which two?
    Help would be much appreciated.
    Thanks
    Ray
     
  2. john zibell

    john zibell Moderator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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    Ray, that is a diagnostic plug for a computer with the required software to read the ECU. Do not attempt to short any of the connections in that plug as ECU damage may result. Since it looks like the V10 uses the P8 ECU check the RH side of the block for a sensor that would read magnets on the flywheel. I believe that is the RPM sensor. There is a P8 manual in the downloads that may help you.
     
  3. Ray1150

    Ray1150 Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Famiglia

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    Thanks John, the P8 manual is very useful and I have added it it to my how to folder.
    However it shows two sensors (page 13) and the workshop manual (page 110 diag12-05)one. I just can't find another one and now think it's just a bad translation.
    I've sent off for a diagnostic connector but would like to know how to get the check lamp going if anyone knows.
    Thx
    Ray
     
  4. john zibell

    john zibell Moderator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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    Ray, Checking the manual I see the V10 uses the 16M ECU, not the P8. So the sensor at the camshaft does double duty to indicate phase and RPM. You will need software that reads the 16M ECU to determine what is going on.
     
  5. scottmastrocinque

    scottmastrocinque Scott Mastrocinque GT Famiglia

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    Sorry I missed this earlier. Yes, the Centauro uses the Magneti Marelli IAW 16M ECU.

    On the Centauro, the check lamp is already on the motorcycle attached to the frame, under the seat. I see one in your photo as well.

    IMG_4259.JPG

    IMG_4260.JPG

    My lamp flashes 1 time very briefly when I power the bike and put the kill switch into the run position which indicates that it is indeed receiving power.

    I'm not sure that you actually have to disconnect or connect anything on the Centauro. The test procedure in the manual describes causing a fault to check the lamp.

    "CHECK LAMP control​

    Control the CHECK LAMP (with the key inserted in the control board) through the following steps:​

    - Cause an intentional failure , unscrewing a sensor.

    - If this failure is detected it means that the CHECK LAMP works, but the electronic control unit did not memorise any previous fault. Therefore it is possible that a failure is present somewhere in the circuit and is not detectable with the auto diagnosis system.

    In case the CHECK LAMP does not detect the failure, control its connections and if necessary substitute it."


    I believe but am not sure that when you turn the key and ignition kill switch, if there is an actual detected fault, then the lamp simply flashes as it is indicated in the manual. I am not sure as I've never needed to read this code before. (Knock on wood). I will force a fault as described above and verify that it indeed flashes a valid code.

    I have never ever seen a "stand alone” plug in check lamp (GU00970000) , let alone been able to find one off of the internet anywhere. I've never even seen a picture. I am fairly positive that the motorcycles that had this feature from the factory, had the check lamp factory installed like on both of my V10 Centauro motorcycles and yours as well.

    Ray1150 where did you locate one please? I am very interested as to how they have it configured and how they propose to connect it to the ECU.

    Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2021
  6. john zibell

    john zibell Moderator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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    These bikes should have come from the factory with a check plug. It is placed on the diagnostic plug instead of the cover. I don't know which of the pins are connected, nor by what. That is is it just a solid connection or made with a resistor of a certain value. Once the plug is placed on the connector and the key is turned on, the check lamp will then pulse error codes. The parts manual shows the diagnostic plug attached to the main cable near the ECU but it is not broken out separately. If it has been removed from your bike I don't know how you would obtain one.
     
  7. Ray1150

    Ray1150 Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Famiglia

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    Yes that's it John, whatever connects to the diagnostic plug that will fire up the check lamp??
    On my old SV1000 you shoved a paperclip in the diagnostic plug and the riders display changed to show fault codes.
    I tried as you said Scott without any reaction from the light, I then put a continuity tester across it and the light does work.
    There is a blank covering the diagnostic plug but it's only a dustcover without any contacts.
    I've ordered lonelec.co.uk/ Cable meanwhile and I hope with Diag it will tell me why I have no spark.
    Any recommendations on software?

    (Sorry not to be clear Scott, I wasn't talking about a stand alone Check Lamp, as you say it's plumbed in, the $64,000 question is how do I get the it to start flashing fault codes)
     
  8. scottmastrocinque

    scottmastrocinque Scott Mastrocinque GT Famiglia

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    Hi Ray. GuzziDiag is a forbidden topic on this forum by Todd, the owner. Please see:

    https://www.guzzitech.com/forums/threads/guzzidiag-notice.16329/

    Nobody here can help you with that one.

    I will STRONGLY CAUTION YOU though, several of the mechanics here, including myself, have seen firsthand, ECU's that have been "bricked" by that software. WE DO NOT RECOMMEND IT for this reason. It has caused mayhem many times. Please be aware that you can destroy your ECU with GUZZIDIAG and believe me, it's not hard to do that level of damage. Most times, when I have encountered a bricked ECU from it, the customer told me that it was downloading fine, finished fine, no errors, and then their ECU would no longer function nor could it be addressed by any computer or software, including the Piaggio PADS.

    I may be able to offer you some other assistance if you tell me specifically what is happening. Do you have no spark at either plug and if not, please tell me how you have verified this.

    I am looking for my check lamp plug, which may be separate from the bike as the previous owner, gave me boxes of stuff. I need to check them tonight. If I can find the plug, I can determine it's configuration.
     
  9. scottmastrocinque

    scottmastrocinque Scott Mastrocinque GT Famiglia

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    Alright! Got it.

    1. Many thanks to: Dan Prunuske <dan@dpguzzi.com> wrote:

    “I have a couple of those plugs... somewhere! They don't work after a while, probably due to oxidation. I wired a switch into the system. THAT works! On the 94-97 Cals, the indicator light is on the dash so easy to monitor on the road. See:

    https://dpguzzi.com/cal1100i.pdf

    I would think the system works the same on the 16M - short the violet and white wires together.”


    2. I went searching in the giant box of extras that the original owner of my current Centauro gave me and what do I find in a plastic bag with a CD copy of the Servicing the Centauro? The plug!

    I can confirm from the layout of the plug, that you indeed put a jumper between the violet and the white wires on the ECU plug. Then the computer will flash out the codes when you power up. I didn't have time to generate a test fault to confirm this, but I believe it to be totally accurate given the response from Dan and examining my plug carefully.

    Good Luck!

    Let me know what happens please.



    IMG_4265.JPG



    IMG_4267.JPG



    IMG_4268.JPG
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2021
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  10. Ray1150

    Ray1150 Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Famiglia

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    THAT'S IT !!
    Thanks Scott, I'm just trying to find out why I have no spark I have no wish to bugger about with the ECU or piss Todd off.
    I don't work Fridays so will be in the garage, I'll post again then, hopefully with an answer.
    (Is that the Aussie one ?- really well done service video.)
     
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  11. scottmastrocinque

    scottmastrocinque Scott Mastrocinque GT Famiglia

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    Yes it is. It's been on Youtube for years.

    The last couple minutes (from 36:52) of it, even though recorded with a really terrible microphone, is clear-cut proof that the V-10 Centauro is a legendary motorcycle with a sound unlike any other motorcycle ever made. Once you hear one, you never forget it. It is instantly recognizable and unique. Truly one of the most beautiful sounding motorcycles ever made.

    My very greatest days were ripping up and down Mt. Palomar and all the great San Diego and Orange County hot roads on my first brand new Centauro. The sounds she made were intoxicating.

    My current one too, but the roads in Ohio just are not the same at all as Southern California.





    2.jpg

    3.jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2021
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  12. scottmastrocinque

    scottmastrocinque Scott Mastrocinque GT Famiglia

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    Hey Ray, I receive another useful tidbit from Dan that might help you out. - Scott

    --------------------------------------------------------

    Dan Prunuske <dan@dpguzzi.com> wrote:

    "My humble suggestions:

    1. Check the 5 vdc supply at pin 14 on the ECU or the yellow wire at either the pressure sensor or the TPS. If it is low, either the pressure sensor or the TPS is bad. Unplug each in turn to see which. If this voltage is even a little low, the bike will not start.

    2. Check the resistance of the phase sensor. It should be about 680 ohms."
     
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  13. Ray1150

    Ray1150 Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Famiglia

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    Friday has arrived!
    I joined the diagnostic purple to the white and got a 1-2 and a 2-3.
    All pointing to a wiring fault in the harness, I pulled everything off, cut off every cable tie, scoured the harness for rubbing or badly routed cables, pulled apart every join and squirted it with electrical contact cleaner.
    Nothing, on to the TPS, all voltages correct, checked the phase sensor again, resistance ok.
    3 hours in and nothing apart from back ache. I'll have a bit of lunch and a think................
    Right, start following cables, first place is the coils as there is nothing coming in on the low tension side.
    They go to a relay.
    Changed the relay and er there was the missing spark.

    Well I feel a bit of a muppet but have learnt the hard way and won't forget in a hurry.

    On the plus side I have now had the bike stripped right down gave unseeen parts a clean, found a couple of things I didn't like the look of and rectified them and feel a bit happier about knowing what's where.

    I was getting really worried, there isn't anyone for 50 miles who can help, then I would have had to borrow a van.
    Many thanks for your help Scott & John and pass my thanks to Dan from the dopey English bloke!
     
  14. scottmastrocinque

    scottmastrocinque Scott Mastrocinque GT Famiglia

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    Stop please!

    Your going to ruin my reputation here as a grumpy curmudgeon!

    All I can say is “Awesome. Well done, Sir!”


    MBA Photo small.jpg


    907F369F-95BD-4C8E-89A1-6CECBD2CDCF6.gif

    PS: I forwarded your message onto Dan.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2021
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  15. Bigbear

    Bigbear Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Fantastic work Scott!!
    I've just learnt more about my (ex) Centauro reading these last few posts more than anything else I've read that's generally available elsewhere! :eek:
    Goddam now I know what that bloody little light is as well as the spare plug cable-tied to the frame!:D
    Did know about relays & carry spares, & re-routed that stupid stand kill switch to a master kill switch now under the passenger seat & not exposed to wet weather (+ a good tool-kit) - that what Guzzi's do to you:wasntme:
    Should have no worries now going for ride down to our South Island next week!
    Cheers
    Bill
     
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  16. scottmastrocinque

    scottmastrocinque Scott Mastrocinque GT Famiglia

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    I’m so happy to do anything to keep a Centauro on the road. It makes me smile.

    I’ve loved many motorcycles but the V-10 Centauro is my favorite motorcycle by far.

    If I ever get a free moment, I will be producing the definitive video of changing out the aluminum gears in the front of the engine with Caruso Joe’s steel gears and the oil pump with a real bearing.

    This year for sure.
     

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