v100S clutch problems

[dulcinella]

ciao ragazze
Im a german moto guzzi enthusiast (engineer, age 62) started with a V7 750 from 1970, which I emported from italy and restaurated her, followed by a 1100 california with carburator, then a BMW R1000R, which had no soul and was boring, then moto guzzi norge 8V, with her I did 47000 kilometres of nice touring all over europe and just last month I changed the norge to the V100S with the semiactive suspension....well...feels very different this new generation...the response of the engine is superior to any other guzzi I drove...imagine you drive through the alps...aproach a hairpin bend...slow down into the first gear...pass the peak and do want to excelerate smoothly...well with the older guzzis that always was a problem, because you started to open the throttle very slowly and carefully, but nothing happened until suddenly she would launch as if there was no tomorrow. with the 100 no problem...100% you can control her. BUT here comes my problem: the clutch does not properly disengage!...when she is cold and I stop at the first crossing after 500 meters, being in the first gear, clutch completely pulled, she still crawls. that also explains, why changing gears is sometimes very hard and really needs a too high force to the shift lever. i have now done 1000 kilometers and it did not change. also when i engage the first gear at stand still, she always jumps. I can say, that it is not only my V100...before I bought her, I had a testride with the normal V100...not S...and it was alike. the dealer promissed, it would improve with the mileage, but I dont believe that. since this is the first guzzi with wet clutch...can anybody share information, if a different oil viscosity would be helpfull? or is it a problem of the clutch actuation cylinder?....any idea? would be great to hear from you

 

[santuz]

Dulcinella, I really love your attempt with italian, but take care, ciao ragazze means hello girls, ciao ragazzi means hello boys

 

[dulcinella]

Dulcinella, I really love your attempt with italian, but take care, ciao ragazze means hello girls, ciao ragazzi means hello boys

ok...learned something...then ciao ragazzi of course

 

[indyrider]

My v100 jumps into first gear as well at a cold startup, but does improve as the engine gets hot. I do not have the same issue of the bike still moving forward after the clutch is pulled. No help but at least another data point.

 

[viewpoint]

My Kawasaki ZZR1400 did the same for the 9 years I owned her before going over to the Italian side. Cold or hot .
I just lived with it
Dave …. On the the red one

 

[Tebax]

I’m perfectly fine with the gear box.
Off course putting it into first gear is with a distinct clunk, especially cold.
But not offensive enough.
And it improved a bit with miles.
A tip is to put the bike in thirst gear before starting the cold engine (remember side stand in as well as the clutch lever).
Rest of gear changes is fine, really fine actually from third to six gear.
Smooth, distinctive, and no missing in-between gears situation.

Quickshifter on my V100s works OK, but needs some balancing with kinda neutral throttle, mostly at lower gears in upshifting.
Shifting down is fine in all gears if you lift off the throttle.
Down to first gear is possible but not recommended, but who would want to QS all the way down to first gear?
Sure, I have done it in very slow speed before full stop at an intersection stop sign, just to test it.
But that was really low speed and low rpm’s.
This is the first bike for me with a QS so I’m not used to it yet (despite 4000 miles on it now), so I prefer to shift manually.
Easy job manual shifting!
It works really well in total I would say.

However I will point out that the gear box seems to be unsuitable for 0-60 practice as it doesn’t like to be pushed too quick between thirst to second gear, and a bit to third as well.
This could perhaps improve with mileage and time, but I don’t feel like violate my bike

And to conclude something, rest of the bikes on the market aren’t bright stars, just dive down and read every comments on the internet.
Less clunk into first gear, yes the Guzzi V100 has this character more than others, but certainly not alone.
Most bikes have any of the long lever feel, indistinctive, unprecise, missing in between neutrals, etc.
And it also comes down to engine type, tuning, maintenance, abuse, that will influence the feel and function.
Some bikes models certainly have unusual good examples of gearboxes off course, but completely flawless…?
Nah…thats an utopia.

 

[stromcat]

I’m perfectly fine with the gear box.
Off course putting it into first gear is with a distinct clunk, especially cold.
But not offensive enough.
And it improved a bit with miles.
A tip is to put the bike in thirst gear before starting the cold engine (remember side stand in as well as the clutch lever).
Rest of gear changes is fine, really fine actually from third to six gear.
Smooth, distinctive, and no missing in-between gears situation.

Quickshifter on my V100s works OK, but needs some balancing with kinda neutral throttle, mostly at lower gears in upshifting.
Shifting down is fine in all gears if you lift off the throttle.
Down to first gear is possible but not recommended, but who would want to QS all the way down to first gear?
Sure, I have done it in very slow speed before full stop at an intersection stop sign, just to test it.
But that was really low speed and low rpm’s.
This is the first bike for me with a QS so I’m not used to it yet (despite 4000 miles on it now), so I prefer to shift manually.
Easy job manual shifting!
It works really well in total I would say.

However I will point out that the gear box seems to be unsuitable for 0-60 practice as it doesn’t like to be pushed too quick between thirst to second gear, and a bit to third as well.
This could perhaps improve with mileage and time, but I don’t feel like violate my bike

And to conclude something, rest of the bikes on the market aren’t bright stars, just dive down and read every comments on the internet.
Less clunk into first gear, yes the Guzzi V100 has this character more than others, but certainly not alone.
Most bikes have any of the long lever feel, indistinctive, unprecise, missing in between neutrals, etc.
And it also comes down to engine type, tuning, maintenance, abuse, that will influence the feel and function.
Some bikes models certainly have unusual good examples of gearboxes off course, but completely flawless…?
Nah…thats an utopia.

You are wrong there.Every Suzuki I have had (a good few) have had brilliant,faultless gearboxes.So did my Kawasaki Versys 1000.So you CAN have a faultless gearbox.

 

[Tebax]

You are wrong there.Every Suzuki I have had (a good few) have had brilliant,faultless gearboxes.So did my Kawasaki Versys 1000.So you CAN have a faultless gearbox.

Well that depends on how you define faultless
I have had Kawasakis, Suzuki, and Triumph.
And I have test ride Honda VFR amongst others.
Neither had a perfectly smooth, distinct gear box in every aspect.
There are lots of shades of grey so to speak.
Point is that besides the first gear clunk, the Mandellos gear box is quite good.

 

[JPC56]

I've had Suzukis and a Honda and they all clunk when engaging first gear. The V100 has an engine speed clutch and a fairly high idle speed which could account for the clunk and lurch. My V100 is quite quiet and almost lurch free when cold but is more pronounced when at normal temperature. My dealer used an ester based Silkolene Pro-4 XP 10-50 oil, pricey at £89 for 4.9 ltrs. I don't know how the clutch and gearbox are lubricated but it looks like they are splash fed but the clutch is quite high up which might explain why the oil level was increased from 3.5 ltrs to 4.9 ltrs.

 

[dulcinella]

dulcinella,
Do not change the oil viscosity.....
Three possibilities to check:
1) It is possible there may be a small amount of air in the hydraulic fluid that will have the clutch not fully disengaging causing the bike to creep forward when fully warmed up, while stopped in first gear. Have your dealer check this.
2) Have you tried adjusting the clutch lever further away from the bar/grip? I don't know how yours is set up, but if too close to the handlebar grip it may need to be adjusted further out.
3) Worst case scenario is there could be one or more of the clutch plates from the factory that are warped or bent, causing the drag. Or if the clutch plate tabs and/or clutch basket notches for the plate tabs are out of spec and not letting the plates move freely when the clutch is disengaged will cause drag. Have your dealer check this also.

You may want to accumulate some more kilometers and see if there is improvement. aspecially after the first oil change.
Mine improved after about 650 mi. (1050km) or so and there is no creeping (clutch plate drag) now. The lurch forward is also better now also, but If you have ridden a Harley with Twin Cam or M8 motor you would see the V100 is quite like this. There are no syncros in these motorcycle transmissions and utilize engagement "dogs" and are abrupt when engaging 1st gear with certain designs.

Hope this helps, G

hi gmanin
thanks for the comprehensive details
I have set the clutch lever to maximum to ensure most effective setup for the clutch stroke. in 2 weeks I have my appointment for the 1st service at 1500 kilometers and will assign the dealer to ventilate the hydrailic clutch sytem.
I also checked the motor oil level and it is definitely above the max level, even if you don't thread in the oil dipstick...I am curious, if this could also have an effect.
at ford production we had a special oil in the cars for the first filling...wonder if MG also uses a special oil...so I am looking forward how she behaves after the service....will keep you posted

 

[dulcinella]

Sorry for keeping you waiting...but I couldn't drive that much...in the meantime I achieved the 1500KM hurdle for the 1st inspection..I must say, that the clutch behavoiur became much better and the willingsnes for the gear change as well...but still not as good as my Norge. I think it needs some more thousand kilometers for running in. Besides my coolant loss, which I shared in the other thread it is all ok for the moment....longing very much for the next season to come...I am planning to drive to the wheels and waves in Biarritz in south of france in june...
Did anybody by chance fell over a front fender extension, to save the cooler?
Also the rear fender is a joke...what was this again..."design follows function"?

 

[Vagrant]

FWIW I've had a few Japanese bikes that shifted poorly with one brand of oil but great with anotner.