V11 LeMans vs BMW R1100S

[ableguzzi]

Good morning Guzzi Tech,

I am in the market to purchase a stablemate to my 2007 Moto Guzzi Griso. I purchased the Griso for its sport touring ability (I have MG's luggage set) and would like to compliment the Griso with a sportier/ faired bike for shorter commutes and the occasional track day.

I plan on using the next year to research and test-ride but was hoping for some personal feedback from you all.

I am very intrigued by the V11 LeMan's and a BMW R1100S (I think they are beautiful machines). If I can find the right bike for the right price I would opt for a later year and a special edition like the Tenni, Corsa or BMW's Boxer Cup Replica since they provide nice upgrades from the manufacture.

Although I am in love with the big block MG's I don't know if the V11 will be too similar to my Griso. I want to ensure that their is enough of a contrast between the bikes so I can appreciate each bike more.

From my current research prices are pretty close, but the BMW may be more expensive to run? My concerns are centered around-

1. Reliability of the bike- known mechanical flaws
2. Parts availability and cost- I enjoy wrenching on my own bikes
3. Stock performance ability to be used on the occasional track day
4. Personal experience with BMW... I have never owed anything from Germany
5. What is the bike that is going to stay in the garage for the long-term

Thank you so much, Andrew

 

[john zibell]

Having worked on both, I can tell you the V11 LeMans is easier to maintain except for an oil filter change. Also there are some engine surging issues with the BMW oil heads until the 1150 dual plug models. Both would be fun on the track.

 

[GTM®]

I am very intrigued by the V11 LeMan's and a BMW R1100S (I think they are beautiful machines). If I can find the right bike for the right price I would opt for a later year and a special edition like the Tenni, Corsa or BMW's Boxer Cup Replica since they provide nice upgrades from the manufacture. Although I am in love with the big block MG's I don't know if the V11 will be too similar to my Griso.

First welcome to the GT Forum, and congrats on the Griso. Hope you'll add your info to the Registry; https://www.guzzitech.com/forums/threads/griso-registry-picture-thread-add-your-bike.1098/
Guzzi's are addictive as you know.
Having owned at least one of nearly every brand including multiple BMWs pre-1990 (but I have also ridden most all of them to date with Cycle World Magazine), and with a heavy racing and track day background (I ran my own school), BMW lost me when they moved to the paralever front end. Not to say you can't track ride the BMW, it's just front end numb IMO. I prefer conventional forks which they use on the R-Nine T and S1000/HP-I4 models.
Outside of the BMW cost to maintain and parts, owners tend to be like Guzzi owners and ignore all of the issues by just fixing them, or complaining until they are with their dealer (Google search BMW rear drive failures). John above can speak far more than I can about them as he works on them still.
As for the Spines, go ride one. I've owned several of them over the years. It will be similar to your Griso in many ways. If you like them, I'd look for and recommend a '04 Cafe Sport or '05 Coppa Italia with Ohlins. Those were very refined by those years, and the suspension is a worthwhile addition out of the crate for average sized riders (the Rosso and Scura not at all - meaning you must spend $ to fix the suspension to make them rideable). Older models were fairly solid outside of some electrical bugs, and easily repaired problematic shift return springs. In '02-05, they went to a ~1" longer frame to help with handling "twitchiness" of the '00-01 models - which included the Sport, LeMans, Rosso Mandello & Scura models. If you invest in sorting them, they can be fun if you are a knee-out/down rider, as the Spine was designed after Dr. John's endurance winning racer.
Oil filter change on these models is a round threaded cover, so easier than the 1100 California models.
Hope that helps.

 

[Godfrey]

Thanks for that, Todd. I also have a bit of a jones going on for a V11 Sport. I don't know that I can afford one, or where I'd put another bike. But I liked that model from the first I saw them in the late 1990s.

 

[ableguzzi]

Thank you so much for the replies John and Todd. We are approaching winter now in New York but I will try and find local V11 and R1100S owners that will let me sit on/ test ride their machines. This may be tough since I don't see many Guzzi's in Long Island...

Guzzi's are addictive. Gosh I love my Griso. I love the fact that they are "agricultural" and that their lay-outs haven't changed much since the 60's. But I am also intrigued by how BMW owners talk about the incredible build quality and reliability of their machines.

I only have room for two bikes so I am hoping the next bike will give me something the Griso doesn't.

Todd, thank you for narrowing my focus to the Cafe Sport and Coppa. I don't mind spending a premium on these more limited editions since I won't have to spend the $ fiddling on set-up *I am 5'10 and weigh approx. 170 lbs.

I will start hunting them down in the classified section, ebay, etc...

Thank you again.

 

[GuzziMoto]

I have a Griso, and the wife has a V11. Hers is an early red frame sport and my Griso is an 1100. The two bikes are pretty different, the Griso is much softer and you ride IN it where as the V11 is sharper and better handling and you ride more ON it.
I personally prefer the V11, it has a more raw feel. Thankfully I have a Daytona and a Lario as well (the Lario was supposed to be the wifes, but she acquired a Ducati Monster so I commandeered the Lario). The Griso is always fun to ride, it is much more refined than the older Guzzi's. Whenever I ride the Griso I think "Oh, this is actually fun". But it lacks the excitment of the older spine frame bikes for me, it lacks their sex appeal. That is not to say there is anything wrong with the Griso, I like the Griso a lot. The V11 and the Daytona are both more raw, more elemental, and scratch a different itch. All are fun to ride, just different.

 

[ableguzzi]

Thank you for the reply Michael. The Griso is addictively fun... especially the 1100. And gosh, you have a nice fleet of Guzzi's!

The sensations you described around the V11 are exactly what I am looking for. I am a big believer in contrast. I see how tempting the bike market is to constantly buy the newest, shiniest, fastest one and that scares me. I don't want to keep buying an selling bikes (nor do I want to keep financing). I want to buy a bike and build a relationship with it. Fix it when it breaks (hopefully not often) but to really reinforce and understand why I chose to ride a motorcycle in the first place and that is to ride a motorcycle.

I do want something sportier (to compliment the Griso) so I can take the bike to the track so I can better hone my skills for the street. But again, I have no intentions to be competitive and trailering my bike to the track. I want to ride the bike to the track, learn and ride home.

Moto Guzzi has really won me over hence my purchase of the Griso. I love the idea that they still factor in design and the emotional experience and connection of owning a motorcycle and ease of maintaining them.

New bikes are tempting but I think you all are steering me closer and closer to another Moto Guzzi... V11. Thank you.

 

[farmboy460]

Thank you for the reply Michael. The Griso is addictively fun... especially the 1100. And gosh, you have a nice fleet of Guzzi's!

The sensations you described around the V11 are exactly what I am looking for. I am a big believer in contrast. I see how tempting the bike market is to constantly buy the newest, shiniest, fastest one and that scares me. I don't want to keep buying an selling bikes (nor do I want to keep financing). I want to buy a bike and build a relationship with it. Fix it when it breaks (hopefully not often) but to really reinforce and understand why I chose to ride a motorcycle in the first place and that is to ride a motorcycle.

I do want something sportier (to compliment the Griso) so I can take the bike to the track so I can better hone my skills for the street. But again, I have no intentions to be competitive and trailering my bike to the track. I want to ride the bike to the track, learn and ride home.

Moto Guzzi has really won me over hence my purchase of the Griso. I love the idea that they still factor in design and the emotional experience and connection of owning a motorcycle and ease of maintaining them.

New bikes are tempting but I think you all are steering me closer and closer to another Moto Guzzi... V11. Thank you.

If you look at the classified section of mgnoc website lots of guzzis on there for sale. There is a really low mileage bike in Montana for sale at the moment. Green with the red frame. I think about 3800 miles if I remember correctly. The pictures look good. Don't know the person at all but it might be worth a look. Good luck on your search.

 

[ableguzzi]

If you look at the classified section of mgnoc website lots of guzzis on there for sale. There is a really low mileage bike in Montana for sale at the moment. Green with the red frame. I think about 3800 miles if I remember correctly. The pictures look good. Don't know the person at all but it might be worth a look. Good luck on your search.

Thank you for sharing MGNOC's classified section. Gosh that is a nice Greenie and seems a like fair deal for the condition and low mileage. My only hesitation is what Todd said about potentially investing money into making it a more trackable bike versus purchasing a stock Cafe Sport or Coppa.

I keep looking. Thank you.

 

[farmboy460]

I may be incorrect but I think I read somewhere that there were only fifty Coppa Bikes made worldwide. I also think they were low numbers in all the limited edition v11s with the better suspension parts. I know a guy that might have one of them for sale I bought my 1100 sport from him. You would have to import it from Canada. Let me know if you would like me to contact him. His bikes are all pristine and perfectly sorted.

 

[farmboy460]

The really cool thing about guzzis is you rarely see another one on the road. When you find someone who knows what they are you are in for a long visit! Of coarse you already know that with you griso. The hunt for the one you want will be part of the pleasure of owning it in the end. Good luck on your hunt!

 

[GuzziMoto]

Some of the special versions of the V11 do come with better suspension. But the suspension still isn't set up for you and it will still take money to make it right if you want to be doing it right.
The difference between the early red frame V11s and the later black frame V11s is as big a difference, if not more of a difference, than the difference between suspensions on the different versions. And usually the Coppa's increased cost is enough to pay for the suspension upgrades on a more basic version. I do love the Coppa, but I can't see paying the crazy prices people want for one. Some of the other specials are more reasonably priced, but you are still paying a premium for the privilege. You could put that extra money straight into better suspension, set up for you and brand new.
I would rather have an early red framer anyway, like that greenie. The only thing I would be scared about with that greenie, from the sound of it, is the lack of miles on it. That means it spent a lot of time sitting, so things may need replacing. But it sounds like the price is low enough to cover that and still leave room for suspension upgrades. And it is the coolest color the V11 came in....

 

[GTM®]

Mike, the Café Sport, Rosso Corsa LM and Coppa Italia suspension is actually quite good as delivered, and for our friend ableguzzi’s weight, it’s spot on. I agree on the pricing of the Coppa (it’s my favorite of the bunch having spent a solid week on one for Sportbike mag, and was on the seat for the radar gun verified 139 mph top speed run). But, I’ll again say the refinement on these models is evident over all of the older years, and the short (red) frame absolutely has a nervous front end compared to the longer frame... there’s a reason they evolved to it on all models.
I’ve owned six (6) spine frames to date and have track ridden most of them, and put ~60k street miles on them collectively, aside from wrenching and riding dozens more, hence my reasoning and words above.

The older Spines like your Daytona are a different (and great) animal.

 

[farmboy460]

So where do you think the scura, Nero corsa, and ballibio. Fit in?

 

[Godfrey]

I'm attracted to the Scura, it's very nice looking. I might have to ride one...

 

[GTM®]

So where do you think the scura, Nero corsa, and ballibio. Fit in?

All mostly covered in my first post above. The Nero is aligned with the RC LM (newer the better), and the Ballabio is the long frame and pretty evolved, just has the cheaper spec suspension.

 

[GTM®]

I'm attracted to the Scura, it's very nice looking. I might have to ride one...

Only ride one with the suspension sorted... as it's literally horrific as delivered in stock trim. It is a looker though. Funny that I think of those in the U.S., the bulk of them are in CA. There was several at the SoCal NAR last month, and I just recently sold the third one I've owned in as many years.

 

[ableguzzi]

The really cool thing about guzzis is you rarely see another one on the road. When you find someone who knows what they are you are in for a long visit! Of coarse you already know that with you griso. The hunt for the one you want will be part of the pleasure of owning it in the end. Good luck on your hunt!

Thank you and thank you for the kind offer. I am not yet ready to pull the trigger and import a bike from Canada. I am still trying to get on a few V11's and BMW R 1100 S for test rides.

After receiving the feedback from Todd I am highly considering the Coppa and Cafe Sport. It is a little tough for me to digest some of the current asking prices however I am looking at my next purchase as a long-term investment. These bikes are getting more and more rare and it would be nice to have a bike that doesn't depreciate unlike buying a new motorcycle. And new bikes just don't do it for me.

And... I really like the idea of having a stock bike. Having a stock bike is so much easier. Everything just works... and you don't have to spend the extra money and time sorting things out.

Thank you so much for everyones feedback, I really appreciate it and Happy Thanksgiving!

 

[Godfrey]

Only ride one with the suspension sorted... as it's literally horrific as delivered in stock trim. It is a looker though. Funny that I think of those in the U.S., the bulk of them are in CA. There was several at the SoCal NAR last month, and I just recently sold the third one I've owned in as many years.

In your opinion: What kind of sorting out does the suspension require? Springs? Whole suspension units? Damping modification/adjustment?

I'm going to try to pass by the dealer on my way home and do a "test sit" just to see if I like the ergonomics of the bike. That'll be Monday morning ...

 

[GTM®]

In your opinion: What kind of sorting out does the suspension require?

How about I give you facts.
Both the valving and springs are so far off on the stock units, that they require both. When I did mine many years ago, to revalve/refresh/replace parts, the rear shock was $650 and the forks were close to the same. That said, I have a spare Ohlins rebuilt shock and forks on the shelf I might sell to anyone so interested. Won’t be cheap of course.