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V11 red frame charging issues

Discussion in 'Chat & Tech Info' started by motofreddy, Jul 7, 2019.

  1. motofreddy

    motofreddy Just got it firing!

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    I have a year 2000 V11Sport that goes through rectifier/regulator units almost as fast as front tires. I’ve owned this bike about 4 years and will be on the fourth replacement when the new one arrives next week. I’m versed on this system and have tried several different techniques when installing new units like extra grounds, running ground to battery, more grounds at frame etc.
    Alternator puts out the normal AC voltage, ~15 idle, ~65 at high engine revs so alls we’ll there. A few knowledgeable friends whose careers are in automotive electrics tag the problem at the unit itself, undersized charge (potential 30amps) and ground wires recommending I splice in larger gauge next time and EME who I’ve been buying the units from claim it’s the AGM battery causing this chronic problem cos of higher resistance. I just ordered a new rectifier/regulator from ElectroSport who claim theirs is built tougher than the rest and I don’t see any warnings restricting use with certain batteries. Some users though have complained about high voltage issues and have calmed them by adding in line diodes so we’ll see!
    Last week I spoke directly to EME not knowing then that GuzziTech are EME dealers and told them that AGM Gell or Lithium Ion are about the only batteries that can be used cos of how they’re mounted in the frame. EME recommends not using any of the above with their product and won’t provide a warranty replacement if used with Odessey which my V11 has.
    They actually told me to find a MOSFET style rectifier/regulator which tells me they know there’s a problem and don’t want the liability. So goodbye to EME.
    Pretty frustrated about this and hoping someone can help direct me to a better solution. Apparently early V11’s are prone to this and other electrical issues which were corrected on later V11’s after the aprilia acquisition.
     
  2. john zibell

    john zibell Moderator Staff Member GT Famiglia

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    Thanks for the information.
     
  3. GuzziMoto

    GuzziMoto GT Reference GT Contributor

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    I have an Odyssey battery on the wife's V11, it has an aftermarket R/R. I don't remember the brand. Anyone who makes an aftermarket R/R and won't warranty it if you use a quality battery like Odyssey is a company I would stay away from as they don't know what they are doing.
    There is an issue with any Vll R/R, you have to watch the grounding. A common mod is to run a ground wire from the R/R to the negative terminal of the battery.
     
  4. motofreddy

    motofreddy Just got it firing!

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    Thanks for your reply. I agree about the battery and Odyssey in my opinion is good and obviously the EME RR doesn’t work well with it.. The person at EuroMotoElectric was firm about not offering a warranty so yeah I think their stuff at least for V11’s isn’t up to standard. I’m not here to trash their product. The first RR I replaced on my V11, was an EME unit replaced by a PO and had been running with a different brand battery. I then didn’t know anything about this problem so I ordered a replacement from EME and figured the problem solved.
    It wasn’t and on other subsequent replacements, I did things like ground direct to battery, added additional grounds....all to no avail.
    What I’ve learned about these EME RR’s which are marketed under the name EnduraLast, according to others using these including a few AirHead friends who have installed the EnduraLast kit - also have dealt with failures.
    From EME according to an Airhead friend, battery condition must be optimal and if not, the RR unit if recharging the battery has to be completely detached from the charging system ground and all. Same if jumping the bike from another source and these units don’t like charging low batteries period!
    The Airheads were at least running with lead acid batteries and were given warranty replacements.
    I report back when I install this new to me ElectroSport RR.
     
  5. GT-Rx®

    GT-Rx® Administrator Staff Member

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    Please do, and I’ve been using the ES MOSFET plug-n-play replacement on many V7’s in my shop. I can put them online for anyone interested. Let me know the model # for the bullet connector version if there is one(?).
     
  6. motofreddy

    motofreddy Just got it firing!

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    It’s an ElectroSport ESR 515 which is their “plug and play” version and ground directly from RR body to frame where it mounts. They also have a version with ground wire similar to the EME unit but having already had several of those, I’ll try the plug and play version and will add ground wires to the engine case and frame at the RR frame mounts. The frame and engine are well grounded already as I’ve cleaned existing grounds and have added a few of my own.
    I found this RR unit on a V11 site discussing RR problems on the earlier V11 Sports and MOSFET came up in a post indicating that this unit is MOSFET. I’ll try to verify this today. Seems though that no one is having much success with anything and why I posted here.
    Another “theory” about early V11 Sports and failed RR’s is that the RR uses the headlight circuit for electrical reference and as most know, that circuit is flawed (thanks Guzzi) and might be over compensating from what is perceived as a low voltage reading. Apparently fixed on later V11’s when Aprilia introduced quality control measures at the Mandello factory. I’ve replaced the undersized stock relay with larger one on that circuit which is the unofficial but well known internet fix for that problem.
    Best solution is to make sure my AAA extended towing account is all paid up
     
    john zibell likes this.
  7. GuzziMoto

    GuzziMoto GT Reference GT Contributor

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    The stock V11 system does use the headlight cicuit for the battery reference. I think this might be how they kept the R/R from draining the battery when the bike was off. You can run the reference straight to the battery, but then you have to worry about it draining the battery. The headlight circuit was an easy switched circuit. But sadly it is not the most reliable circuit with those stock Siemens relays. And because the took the reference signal from AFTER the headlight it means that if your headlight burns out you lose the R/R. But that was likely to allow it to charge when either the low beam or high beam was on. Two separate power feeds, to one common / ground. Of course, reading the voltage AFTER the load means that the voltage signal is low, so they may have fudged the R/R's target to compensate. So, it is screwy, but it does KINDA make sense.
    It really is fairly normal, Italians don't seem very good at how electricity works.
    Enjoy.

    By the way, as I recall the replacement I used on the wife's V11 was Electro-Sport. That was many years ago.
     
  8. motofreddy

    motofreddy Just got it firing!

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    Installed the new ESR 515 rectifier regulator unit. This unit unlike those before has two red charge wires instead of one joined at the bullet connector. From this connection I’m using a charging wire to battery that is substantially larger gauge than what I was using before and I’ve added a 30amp in line fuse holder which is recommended. It was recommended by a few auto electric friends that I use a larger gauge wire to reduce resistance to battery.
    I installed all last evening and it produces voltage that is lower than what I expected but will run it to see if the battery stays healthy. I’ve read on esr 515 blogs that this is common. Also have read that a few have problems with over voltage so not sure what think yet.
    At idle (+/-1000 rpm) the system measures whatever the battery voltage is-meaning it’s not yet receiving charge and at high engine revs it’s showing about 14.1 volts which is near where it should be.
    My concern will be in city traffic when idling a lot.
    The alternator produces 18 vac at idle and around 70 vac at high engine revs which is within spec. I’ve also provided grounds to engine and frame at the mount points of unit cos the unit self grounds to the frame when attached.
    So we’ll see!
     

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