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V7-850 Evap and Tip Info

Discussion in 'V7/V85/V9 Chat & Tech' started by foggy95, May 23, 2021.

  1. foggy95

    foggy95 Tuned and Synch'ed GT Contributor

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    I had just started the evap removal process on my 2021 V7 850 this morning, having done this job a few times on previous V7's - it has always been a straightforward, simple job. But - on this model, I find an electrical connection (yellow)to a sensor of some kind, going to what is called the ventilation valve on the diagram affixed to the rear fender, the vent hose then continuing to the canister.

    Removing this valve will leave the electrical connector 'open' .... non terminated. Will this create an error code to the dash?

    I have read through this thread as well as others on the subject, maybe I missed something, but I don't see this issue discussed ... any help or advice ... thanks in advance!

    003.jpg
     
  2. GTM®

    GTM® Administrator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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    This is new territory, as I haven't seen a V7-850 quite yet. It looks like they finally stepped up and put a quality (Bosch) valve on! I'd say leave it, otherwise yes, you'd likely get a CEL.
    The big reason for gutting or removing the plastic orange/blue valve was because they failed often, causing tank pressurization.
     
    Mayakovski likes this.
  3. foggy95

    foggy95 Tuned and Synch'ed GT Contributor

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    Thanks for that quick reply, Todd. You've confirmed my suspicions that simply removing that valve and connector may cause more trouble than it's worth ... I only get a slight 'whoosh' when I remove my fuel cap for refueling .... I'll live with it until these new systems are better known and understood. I fitted a H-B center stand last week and had to somewhat fabricate the remounting of the canister, that had me looking to do the 'canisterectomy.'

    Thanks again for your help!
    John
     
  4. GTM®

    GTM® Administrator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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    Very welcome. I separated this from the V85TT SAS thread. As we go, I'll revise it to reflect anything I find.
     
  5. AceCut

    AceCut Just got it firing!

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    I am experiencing vacum in the tank on my new V7 850. Also it is hard to start after riding for a while, stopping for 5 min, then trying to start. Opening the gas cap fixes it.

    While I wait for the dealer to reply, any tips on what I can check myself? I have looked for kinks from behind the side panel and down to the evap canister.
     
  6. sib

    sib Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    I've also experienced partial vacuum in the tank of my V7 850 when I remove the cap for refueling, but, so far, it hasn't caused any problems. I'm thinking that a partial vacuum may be designed into the evap system. I know that in the earlier V7(I) and V7II models, an occasional faulty evaporator valve could cause problems, but the V7 850 has an entirely different design. We'll soon know how extensive AceCut's experience is.
     
  7. AceCut

    AceCut Just got it firing!

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    Dealer checked with Moto Guzzi:
    - Vacum in the tank is normal. I sent them a video of it.
    - They suspect a bad connection between starter and starter button.

    Will update after they have inspected the bike.
     
  8. danketchpel

    danketchpel Tuned and Synch'ed

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    Any reason why the hose from the tank to the canister can't be left open, then plug the hose from the Canister back to the intake manifold and leave the electronic valve in place so it doesn't throw an error code?

    I've experienced the pressure/vacuum build-up on my tank and that means to me it's not venting to neutral pressure very well. I have other bikes with the evap canister system still intact that don't build pressure.

    For now I removed the spring in the gas cap as a quicky fix/test. But I'd prefer to put the spring back in and vent the line to air.
     
  9. GTM®

    GTM® Administrator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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    None at all... just the potential for fuel smell or drips on a full tank on the side stand. Try it and let us know.
     
  10. danketchpel

    danketchpel Tuned and Synch'ed

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    I'll give it a shot this weekend and see how it goes, then report back.

    Interesting concern about the H&B center stand not fitting with the canister in place. I want to get a center stand and was considering the H&B one, but didn't know any differences between it and the OEM C stand, maybe this is one?
     
    GTM® likes this.
  11. danketchpel

    danketchpel Tuned and Synch'ed

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    So I tackled the evap canister removal project yesterday.

    (Edit: On the words below, the canister is easily removed by unbolting the frame support - see post HERE - Todd).
    Physically removing the canister is a PITA. It's held in a formed steel cradle that's welded to the frame on one end and open on the other facing the engine. The canister is zip tied to the cradle. You'd think "just cut the zip tie and remove the beast". Umm, not so easy. The only way to physically remove it without pulling the engine is to mechanically bend the cradle with some leverage force enough to be able to extract the canister out. I've never encountered a evap canister setup like that before.

    Anyway, dealing with the lines is easy, pop the hose clamps off which are both the type you have to release with a small screw driver, then remove the hoses from the canister. The larger hose goes up to the tank, leave it open. The smaller hose goes to the valve (which is just behind the plastic starter motor cover) then the intake manifold. Plug that hose. I left the hoses in place especially the one with the valve so no ECU error codes thrown. I zip tied the hoses to not flop around.

    It's a little tight on the working space, but if you didn't need to remove the canister it's easier to just remove the hoses and plug the smaller one. It might make it easier to cut the zip tie which allows you to move the canister over some to increase working room and then re-secure it with a new zip tie.

    I decided to remove it as I had read it interfered with the Hepco & Becker center stand which is a possible option for me in adding a center stand which I really want. I don't know how you're suppose to raise the rear of the bike to remove the rear wheel without one. There's no place to use a paddock stand and if you do a bottom lift there's no support near the rear only the crankcase which is pretty forward so the front will lift far before the rear. But I haven't tried it yet so that may work.

    I have ridden the bike some and not had any problems. I have not had the chance to ride it in hot temps (95-100 deg) like last weekend to see how it affects hot starting. But I believe it should fix it as I think the hot start issue was the canister vent valve purging the canister fumes from the tank into the intake manifold which creates an overly rich starting condition when it's hot which is exactly how it behaved. I have not experienced any tank pressure when removing the cap as expected.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 25, 2021
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  12. greer

    greer Tuned and Synch'ed GT Contributor

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    Thank you!!

    Sarah
     
  13. vagrant

    vagrant GT Reference

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    JMHO, but, the new units work as intended and I see no need to modifiy them. If Guzzi or HB build a CC for them I'm sure it will work with them in place.
     
  14. radioheadmike

    radioheadmike Tuned and Synch'ed

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    I am in the middle of a long roadtrip from Toronto to Halifax.

    I had a few issues with the bike running really poorly in the heat wave we've had these past few days (31-40 degrees Celsius) . It would take a few tries to get the bike running. Also Snatchy fueling/throttling - abruptly jerking.

    Today is a little cooler and the bike is running smoothly. No issues getting the engine started on the first try.

    Is this how it is supposed to work as intended? Doesn't seem right
     
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  15. GTM®

    GTM® Administrator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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    No. You know what they say about opinions. Above is one of them. I've been working tirelessly on trying to keep things factual here, but I can't catch them all. When it's running poorly, did you open the gas cap as a test?
     
    Matt Bryant likes this.
  16. radioheadmike

    radioheadmike Tuned and Synch'ed

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    Yes I did and there was quite a suction.

    And to add there was one time trying to turn on the engine , it just wouldn't turn over and the cluster flashed an OIL PRESSURE AlARM for a quick second and it reset my MGCT back to 2 from 1.

    I have done about 2500km on the trip so far and only concerning issue I have experienced besides the high beam flasher lever stopped working after a heavy rainfall (Hurricane Henri). Oh and one of the mufflers black paint started to peel but I just got the Agostinis and I'll be installing those when I get back home.
     
  17. radioheadmike

    radioheadmike Tuned and Synch'ed

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    I plan to keep the cannister in case I need warranty work on the bike (plug the hoses back in). But to reiterate, all you need to do is remove the hoses from the canister and plug the smaller hose? How did you plug it? Seems like a very easy job that would help significantly considering how hot our summers are getting. I hate to get rid of the bike because of the poor performance caused by the cannister.
     
  18. greer

    greer Tuned and Synch'ed GT Contributor

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    Mike,

    I screwed a tight fitting nylon bolt into the small hose to seal it off.

    Sarah
     
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  19. danketchpel

    danketchpel Tuned and Synch'ed

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    I went back and reworked my evap lines. I apologize, I think the small hose was the wrong one to cap off. Anyway, I think this approach ends up cleaner and easier in the end.

    I removed the lines extending down from the electronically controlled vent valve that leads to the intake manifold and capped it on the bottom of the valve using an readily available vacuum cap sold in Auto parts stores. I then removed the other non-electrical valve from the tank vent line leaving just the line running from the tank down which terminates in a nice location.

    Here's a photo that shows how it looks.

    [​IMG]
     
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  20. danketchpel

    danketchpel Tuned and Synch'ed

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    Mike, if you want to keep the canister I might suggest removing the on the bottom of the electronic valve and capping that as I've shown in my post. Leave the hose in position, or zip tie as needed. Then remove the other non-electric valve from the bottom of the tank vent line and leave it in position, maybe zip tie as needed, but leaving the tank vent line open. Both of these locations are easily accessible by removing the left side cover and plastic starter motor cover.

    The allen wrench under the seat will work for both covers. This would make it easier to both do the needed capping/uncapping and putting it back to stock if need be. It' much easier to reach these locations then working under the bike where the canister is.
     
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