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V7 Classic - Loud squeal following 9k mile service

Discussion in 'V7/V85/V9 Chat & Tech' started by Nickscave, Mar 29, 2018.

  1. Nickscave

    Nickscave Just got it firing!

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    After my 2009 V7 Classic was serviced at a reputable Moto Guzzi dealership, I experienced a loud squeal on the ride home (approximately 20 minutes into the drive, and on surface streets) and immediately pulled over. The squeal went away when I pulled the clutch lever in, but it did continue even without the bike moving. I do want to give kudos to the mechanic / dealership, who met me at my bike and tried to troubleshoot on the spot.

    The squeal I heard sounded -very- similar to this:


    I let the bike cool down while I was waiting for the mechanic, then after he got there started it back up. No squeal. I tried riding it again for a short distance at 20-30mph with the mechanic behind me, and about 2 blocks down the street, the squeal started back up again. I immediately pulled over, the mechanic listened to the noise, and had the bike towed back to the dealership. That was end of day yesterday, no word from the dealer yet.

    During the service, the clutch was adjusted in addition to all fluids being replaced and the valve clearance adjusted. Shifting seemed smooth, and it was very easy to get in to neutral compared to before the service. There was no unusual play in the clutch lever.

    Do you think per the comments on that video that it's possible the gearbox (transmission) oil was not filled, or under filled? I know there's a difference in fluid volume between the 5 and 6 speed models, per searching here on GuzziTech, and the mechanic has been with the dealership for only a week. The squeal was present even when the bike was not moving, after pulling over, so I think that would eliminate the final drive.

    Any other possible culprits? Could any lasting damage have been done? I did appear to catch this very quickly, was not going at highway speeds, and the noise did not immediately resume (it took two blocks or so for the squeal to start back up).

    Thanks for any advice or info you can offer!

    Quick edit -- I got off the phone with the mechanic at the dealership just now. He indicated that the clutch was adjusted with too little free play at the transmission side, which was causing the thrust washer to heat up which caused this noise. He took the bike for a 6 mile ride and couldn't reproduce the issue. I had been riding for about 4.5 miles yesterday before the squealing started. What do you think, seem reasonable?
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2018
  2. V700Steve

    V700Steve High Miler GT di Razza Pura

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    Yes, sounds like a tight clutch adj.. Keep an ear on it.
     
  3. Nickscave

    Nickscave Just got it firing!

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    Thanks, appreciate your feedback. I'll be putting some miles on the bike next week and will hopefully find that the issue is resolved.
     
  4. john zibell

    john zibell Moderator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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    With it repeatable at such a short time it may very well be an adjustment problem. I does remind me of issues many 750 Breva machines had with a squealing sound. No one ever figured out the cause, I hope they find the cause of your sound.
     
  5. roadscum

    roadscum Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Why not drop by the shop and have them take a look at it?

    Paul
     
  6. Nickscave

    Nickscave Just got it firing!

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    I did, it was towed back to the shop as I said in my post. Admittedly, it was a long post :)

    They indicated it was a clutch misadjustment at the transmission side which they accepted responsibility for, adjusted it, went on a 6 mile test ride, and concluded everything was fixed. After getting back from an out of town trip, I caught the bus and picked it up on my lunch break about an hour ago.

    Unfortunately, by the time I got back to work (about a 7 mile ride w/ a mix of highway and city traffic), and tried to shift it into neutral to back it into a spot, it was hard to shift (lots of effort and wanted to skip right past neutral into 2nd), and I noticed it kind of wanted to creep on its own even with the clutch lever fully pulled in. I did shift into neutral a number of times on the ride and it seemed to shift OK during the ride, but my work has an underground parking garage and I had the clutch lever squeezed in as I rolled down the ramp and over to where I'd back into a spot. Could be the longer clutch hold vs. a quick shift on the ride uncovered a problem (stretched cable? "fixed" adjustment was too loose?).
     
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  7. john zibell

    john zibell Moderator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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    Check the gap at the handlebar. The free play should only be about 2mm on the V7s.

    upload_2018-4-3_20-58-59.png
     
  8. Harley Loffler

    Harley Loffler Just got it firing!

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    This exact same thing happened to me after a service. Ended up being caused by a shot Thrust Bearing!
     
  9. Moto_Max

    Moto_Max Cruisin' Guzzisti

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  10. Nickscave

    Nickscave Just got it firing!

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    Thanks for your comments, everyone. The motorcycle was in the shop for a couple of weeks, awaiting a replacement clutch cable. The end of the cable was worn and the shop believed that replacing it would fix the problem, allowing free rotation.

    Unfortunately, this latest fix of 3 still has left the bike near unusable as I confirmed on my 8 mile city back road ride into work this morning, only the 3rd ride since picking the bike up from getting a new clutch cable. It seemed OK on the first two rides (back to work from the dealership, and on the ride home from work), but this morning, once the bike had warmed up from riding a short distance, shifts from 1st to 2nd or 2nd to 1st start to require a significant effort to press or lift the gear shift lever (there is no grinding when changing gears).

    Along with the higher level of effort to shift, it became increasingly difficult to shift into neutral; transmission jumps past neutral into 2nd, and past neutral into 1st when going up or down, respectively. Without neutral, I have to hold the clutch lever in whenever stopped at a light which quickly becomes tiring in city riding. It also leaves me without use of my left hand; I had to turn the bike off with it in 1st to open the garage door with the keypad. I started the bike back up, rode into the garage, turned the bike off when parked, and a few seconds later, I was able to shift into neutral.

    I'm getting really frustrated. The dealership doesn't seem to be able to identify the problem. I brought the bike in for a 9,000 mile service to start off the riding season. It had been riding fine when I parked it for the winter last fall. Since getting that service done, my experience has been:

    • Getting the loud squealing on the ride home from the service, followed by a flatbed tow back to the dealership,
    • They adjusted the transmission side of the cable, indicating it had been over-tightened during the service. I picked the bike up, rode back to work, then had severe difficulty shifting into neutral after the ride to work from the dealership. I also noticed the bike wanted to creep forward when in 1st, even with the clutch lever fully pulled in.
    • Bike shifted into neutral OK when cold, rode back to the dealership, they identified that the clutch cable was worn, and ordered a new one.
    • 2.5 weeks later, I picked up the bike, rode 7 miles or so to work, seemed OK. Rode the bike home, and shifting seemed a little stiff, but I crossed my fingers and hoped it was my imagination.
    • Rode the bike to work this morning; by the time I got off light surface streets and was in congested downtown traffic, shifts had become VERY stiff and hard between 1st & 2nd, and I couldn't shift into neutral; the light will briefly illuminate as I jump past it.

    I'd love any suggestions / feedback for what next steps I could take. I'm going to call the dealership this morning and explain the above.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2018
  11. GT-Rx®

    GT-Rx® Administrator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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    I’ll state this just once... you are in need of a new “throwout” thrust bearing and related assembly as shown below, and it might go deeper if you have run the bike for an extended length of time with an improperly adjusted clutch lever freeplay. Though the bearing lives in a light gear oil bath, I recommend a light grease on new assembly as well. I also recommend find a new dealer or shop that knows Guzzis.

    9A3A74ED-2794-4865-9C62-D5ADAA297560.jpeg
     
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  12. Nickscave

    Nickscave Just got it firing!

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    GT-Rx: Thank you for your quick reply. I'll mention that to the dealer when I speak to them. I did actually ask about that when I brought the bike in last for the clutch cable replacement, and was told, "The dry clutch on the V7 is rather robust, we would have felt slippage already if there was any excessive wear. The push rod and bearing won’t be affected by the cable damage."

    Regarding finding a new dealership, this is a very well regarded dealership in Seattle, though ownership has changed over the last year, and there has been turnover with the mechanics. I'll have to see what my other options are in the area -- can anyone recommend a place in the greater Seattle area?
     
  13. GT-Rx®

    GT-Rx® Administrator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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    Nick, I replied on my phone, so I missed you were in Seattle with M.I. I wouldn't call the clutch on a V7 robust, and the weak link certainly is the bearing/clutch slack adjust. I replaced a dozen or two (assemblies above) in the last two years, when people complain about the clutch or frustration in shifting or finding neutral, I always find the bearing and rod/cup to have signs of excessive heat and deformation. Replacement usually is followed with, "the clutch has never felt that good, even when new." In one instance, I did have to replace the clutch assembly as well with a (mostly) city ridden bike @12k miles.
     
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  14. Nickscave

    Nickscave Just got it firing!

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    That's good to know, thank you very much for sharing your knowledge. Fingers crossed that replacing the thrust bearing / rod assembly will do the trick. I'm not exactly sure what this part does or how it moves; it sounds like it was the culprit for the loud squealing that I got (now gone), and from what you're saying, it's also at fault for the hard shift and lack of ability to shift into neutral?

    Do you think I should insist that it's replaced, even if they express doubt that it's the cause?

    When you said, "it might go deeper if you have run the bike for an extended length of time with an improperly adjusted clutch lever freeplay", did you mean that the clutch assembly might also need to be replaced? How could I identify if that was the case? This bike is only at around 8500 mostly city miles.

    I'm waiting for a call back from M.I.'s service department. I've had good experiences with them in the past (I particularly liked the former service manager, Micha), and the customer service is still top notch. Just feeling like the turnover of mechanics has impacted them negatively, experience wise.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2018
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  15. Nickscave

    Nickscave Just got it firing!

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    I wanted to resurrect this old thread to give a quick status update. I dropped off the bike again with Moto International on May 16th a few days after my last post above; a few blocks from the dealership I couldn't even shift as the new clutch cable had suddenly gone slack; I have no idea if this was related to the damage introduced by initial overtightening during the first service appointment while caused that loud squeal, or due to them not correctly installing the replacement clutch cable on my second appointment.

    I still don't have my bike. All of these problems started after my initial routine 9,000 mile service appointment in late March; it's now the third week of August. As of today, it's been 14 weeks since I dropped the bike off waiting for the replacement throwout bearing / assembly to be delivered and installed.

    MI claim to have ordered the replacement parts from Moto Guzzi after I dropped the bike off in mid-May; as far as I know, they still haven't turned up. About a month ago, after several calls asking for status updates, I convinced them to order the replacement parts from Harper Moto instead, since Moto Guzzi apparently couldn't actually deliver. Every few weeks I call to inquire whats going on. Two weeks ago, I called asking for a status update and explaining my frustration, and was told they would call Harper. I got my first and only call from them a few minutes later, and was told that the part would be delivered in a day or two, and that my bike would be "first on the lift when it arrived." I called again today, two weeks later, for a status update, and was told that they had the parts, and my bike would be "going on the lift in the next day or two."

    I'm beyond frustrated with Moto International. I can't recommend them to anyone at this point for any service related needs. It's a real shame, they had a great reputation and have been in business for many years. My previous appointments in earlier years were fine. Many regard them as the premier Moto Guzzi dealership in the US. That is no longer anywhere approaching reality, if my experience is not a wild outlier. I have never had such a poor service experience from anywhere for any car or motorcycle. My experience has been that the service department does not return emails or voicemails, and when you are able to relay messages through the main phone number (at the parts counter), they make vague promises that are repeatedly broken. They have not once in the last 3 1/2 months reached out to me. I will stand behind the above 100%.

    If I ever get my bike back from them, I have zero confidence that they will have in fact fixed the problem, and not introduced another one. If anyone knows of a good independent mechanic or third party service location in the Seattle area, I would love to hear about it. I unfortunately am close to the point of selling this bike which I love, because I don't feel like I can have it serviced locally. I can't trust that the folks working on it know what they're doing, can reliably service the bike, or diagnose problems, and that the bike I get back will be safe to ride.
     
  16. TimmyTheHog

    TimmyTheHog Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    Sorry to hear about that Nick.

    MI generally has been good to Guzzi, but what you are going thru isn't cool.

    Anywhoo, here are a few shops that "I PERSONALLY LIKE" that is "around" your area.

    1. Aprilia Moto Guzzi Portland in Portland. (They had a bit of shake-up but generally it has been a decent dealer)
    2. Up in Canada: Chilliwack Motorcycle (Yes I know you have to cross the border :p, but I deal with them before and the (semi-retire) tech has over 40 years of servicing Guzzi knowledge and his son is now the head tech which has been trained under him)
    3. heck, you can even send down to Todd if he has the time/space...

    But these are the shops that I know treats Guzzi well over by the West Coast.

    I am sure there will be more local guys chiming in on the services and where/how to.

    I wish you good luck!
     
  17. GT-Rx®

    GT-Rx® Administrator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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    So sad to hear. Dave Richardson built an impressive empire with Moto International. I met him several times. Solid guy and business.

    I have the parts in stock at my shop. You should have reached out after week two. Hopefully they get it rectified quickly for you.
     
  18. Nickscave

    Nickscave Just got it firing!

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    Thanks Timmy, appreciate the mentions of places. If I lived closer to Todd, believe me, I'd be all over that! I did some searching online, and ran across an independent in town called Seattle Used Bikes, coincidentally just 1.5 miles south of MI on the same highway. On their about page, they mention that one of their techs is Moto Guzzi certified -- http://seattleusedbikes.com/about/. I might give them a call and talk to them about their service offerings. It'd be awesome to be able to go to GuzziTech, but the 20 hour drive even if the bike was operational puts a little bit of a damper on that.

    And Todd, appreciate that, I don't know why that didn't cross my mind, but if I need parts in the future, I'll definitely be checking with GuzziTech first (MI suggested Harper, and that's what they went with). Thanks a lot for all the info and suggestions so far, it's very much appreciated. Folks like everyone here are why I really don't want to leave the MG community, in addition to loving the bikes!

    It is not my intention to badmouth MI. I am venting frustration after many months of delays that I do not feel were reasonable, and the poor communication I have received (or lack of any communication at all). I hope they get this straightened out and return to the straight-shooting, professional business that they earned their reputation being. I could not in good conscience recommend them to anyone at this point in time, however (at least for service, which to me is absolutely integral). I don't know how much these problems have to do with Dave retiring, I tend to think it's due to the 100% turnover in the service department (I suppose the two could be related). I do know he's a great guy, I enjoyed my very brief chats with him, and him letting me pet his gorgeous shop pitbull. I think he'd be pretty upset to hear about this experience.

    If and when I do get my bike back, I'm going to ask to speak to one of the current owners, relay my experience and concerns along with the timeline of what I've dealt with since March, and let them know that, in my opinion, their business is going to go down the drain if they don't rectify their failings in short order. I think it's highly unlikely that I'm the only person that has been dealing with problems in the service department, and that's where dealerships make most of their money.
     
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  19. Harvey21

    Harvey21 Just got it firing!

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    Hi Nick, did you get this sorted? Got the same problem with my v7 Stone 2012. Dealer said it could be the starter motor sticking. Only starts after sustained high rpm and only happens in 1st 2nd and 5th gears
     
  20. V700Steve

    V700Steve High Miler GT di Razza Pura

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    Sounds like a throwout bearing not the starter, specially if it happens going down the road and not touching the starter button. Make sure you have the correct play at handle bar.
     

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