RentAGuzzi Motorcycle Rentals & Tours – Los Angeles CA
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V7 II OWNERS CLUTCH ADVISORY/BEARING OMISSION

Discussion in 'V7/V85/V9 Chat & Tech' started by GT-Rx®, May 21, 2016.

  1. GT-Rx®

    GT-Rx® Administrator Staff Member

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    Thread started by our friend Steve below... if you're having issues with your V7 II regarding your clutch working correctly, which (can lead/) led to your motor being replaced due to missing crank thrust bearings from the factory.
    PDFs info attached.
    Please post yours by replying to this thread if you have had this issue. Those affected listed below:

    ZGULWUA01EM200223 - Engine # 018044 @Erik Green - NYC
    ZGULWUB05GM200257 - @emab
    ZGULWUB07GM200258 - @RedHawk47 - Dan
    ZGULWUB01GM200353 - @Moto_Max
    ZGULWUB09GM200357 - @MarkAWallace
    ZGULWUB02GM200393 - Steve S - SoCal
    ZGULWUB07GM200499 - @frnco
    ZGULWUB05GM200548 - Engine # AN 016940 - Shannon M - SoCal

     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Mar 6, 2019
    vootee1 and Dardas like this.
  2. Bobby

    Bobby Tuned and Synch'ed GT Famiglia

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    Can you say why? And does this apply to the V7-1?
     
  3. GT-Rx®

    GT-Rx® Administrator Staff Member

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    There has been a few very rare "engine failures" related to no thrust washer/bearings (from the factory) on the trans side of the crankshaft, with expedient demise due to clutch (mis-)adjustment.

    I can't say if all have been related to physical adjustment post delivery, but on both of my '16s, there was zero slack at the back adjuster, and both clutches slipped under acceleration leading me to believe they were far too tight. I put a few mm of slack there and will maintain that like I do on all of my other Guzzi with cable actuation.
     
  4. pokeyjoe

    pokeyjoe High Miler

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    Every since Todd pointed out the lack of slack in the back adjuster, I've been using that as a guide when adjusting at the lever. I was at a dealer last week and they had 4 new V7 IIs in the showroom. Two of them had no slack at the rear adjuster. I know some dealers don't perform a PDI until a bike is sold, so that may not mean anything.
     
  5. RedHawk47

    RedHawk47 Tuned and Synch'ed GT Famiglia

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    I bought a V7II in August 2016. Took it in for first service in October. Told the shop manager that I had had to adjust the clutch at the engine end because there was not enough adjustment at the lever. He said "Oh, there are a couple of tests we will run".

    Next day he called and said "I have good news and bad news. The bad news is that there was lots of metal in the engine oil. The good news is that you are getting a new engine, under warranty." Timing worked just right for me. I was headed out for a two week trip with a different motorcycle. Two days after I got home I picked up my V7 with a new engine. Great service from Moto Guzzi and my dealer, Moto Italia of Northern Colorado.

    Apparently this is now a known problem. It is my understanding that a thrust washer was not installed on the crankshaft.
     
  6. sib

    sib Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Yes, there have been a few reports of catastrophic engine failures related to a missing crankshaft thrust washer that was somehow omitted during engine assembly. Apparently, without the thrust washer, the crankshaft rapidly wears its way backwards through the rear journal, which causes the clutch mis-adjustment symptom. Fortunately, these failures occur during the first couple thousand miles, so they're covered by the warranty. This is a good reason why you should ride your new bike, don't just keep it parked. However, I would think that this problem is so obviously a manufacturing defect, that MG would probably cover it even if it manifests beyond the 2-year warranty period (but we shouldn't count on that). That said, not all V7IIs have the problem. My '16 Stone has over 13,500 miles on it and the clutch cable adjustment has held steady, even more so than the one on my previous '13 Stone.
     
  7. GuzziV65TT

    GuzziV65TT Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    It's been a small block weakness for years. My V35 MK1 had bright blue rear thrust bearings and crank as the clutch was too tight. Later in life Moto Guzzi altered the rear thrust bearings to add an oil supply and extra drilling in the rear of the crank.

    I have a V7 Racer engine in my workshop that knocks at the slightest pressure on the clutch lever and the thrust bearings are ruined and the crank shows wear.

    Dont think its something Moto Guzzi have fixed recently as the part numbers for the thrust bearings have been the same for years from the later V50's, V65, V75, Breva, NTX etc through to the latest v9 bobber and Roamer (GU27066460) #9:

    IMG_0231.jpg

    They are not designed to take constant force of the clutch and will overheat and fail.
     
  8. pnwv7

    pnwv7 Just got it firing!

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    Hi,

    New to forum mostly to ask about this problem.

    I bought a new '16 V7II a few months ago. Only a few miles on it because of an unusually harsh winter. Initially clutch was fine but then started to be difficult to find neutral - the clutch needed adjustment but I found that the adjustment at the clutch lever was already maxed out either from the factory or dealer prep (and not done very well either place because the lock nut on the adjuster hadn't even been snugged down). I checked the owners manual and shop manual and neither reference how to adjust the clutch at the gearbox end. Any ideas? I sent the dealer a message and they asked me to bring it in but they are a couple hundred miles away and it seems they would have been the ones to have maxed out the clutch lever adjustment unless that isn't something done at a pre delivery inspection.
     
  9. sib

    sib Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    You may be one of the unlucky few who received a V7II with a defectively assembled engine. This is a rare but serious problem where a thrust bearing was mistakenly left out during engine assembly, and allows the crankshaft to rapidly eat its way backward through the soft aluminum crank case casting. The problem manifests itself within a few hundred miles and appears to be a clutch that can't keep its adjustment. The only cure is a new engine. Moto Guzzi dealers know about this issue and will replace the engine on warranty. Several such cases have been reported in the forums. I stress that this appears to be a rare problem, although a serious one. Get your bike to the dealer ASAP. And, for all V7II owners, I strongly suggest that you put a couple thousand miles on it before the warranty expires.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2017
  10. pnwv7

    pnwv7 Just got it firing!

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    The thing that bothers me most about this is that it was sold with the clutch adjustment barrel full out so it was known that there was a problem before it was sold and that really ticks me off. someone just shipped it out the factory door to be someone elses problem then from the dealer. I'm hoping that the clutch barrel isn't something that is done in routine PDI by a reputable dealer because otherwise it was intentionally sold with a known problem, whatever it turns out to be.
     
  11. sib

    sib Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    It's usually the dealer, not the factory, that makes these pre-delivery adjustments, Also, the dealer usually takes a bike for a short spin before delivery. So, if anyone is to blame for noticing, but not correcting the problem before delivery, it should be the dealer. Of course, that wouldn't let the factory off the hook for causing the problem in the first place.
     
  12. GT-Rx®

    GT-Rx® Administrator Staff Member

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    Poor PDI for sure, very common unfortunately.
    Run the lever adjuster in, and reset the arm at the back of the trans, just make sure it has some play. See link above to the other thread.
    I've been trying to assemble a list of VIN # or range that had the motor/thrust bearing washer issue.
     
  13. pnwv7

    pnwv7 Just got it firing!

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    Poor PDI for sure at best. I checked the owners manual regarding clutch adjustment. They describe the simple adjustment at the clutch lever but then when the manual starts to describe what to do if it has reached full adjustment it only gets as far as to say to screw in the barrel adjuster in then the instructions abruptly stop without further instructions where you would expect description of how to adjust at the gearbox end (like it was just deleted midway in the instructions). I looked at the gear box end there is a 13mm lock nut and what looks like an adjuster that would be turned to adjust the lever, I don't know exactly how it would be adjusted but it looks like the adjustment rod in the lock nut would be turned clockwise into the nut to allow the rod to back the lever to tighten the cable. It looks like that has already been maxed out - that is the lock nut is already at the most rearward of the threads of the adjuster rod (as best as I can describe).
    by the way just to check I turned in the clutch lever adjustment bar handlebar full in like you would expect for a new bike and pulling in the lever doesn't even start to pull in the clutch so it is off in a very large way.
    and the bike has all of 9 miles on it, 5 of those were from the dealer or factory. I bought this bike to do some touring this summer, it is a big step up from what I have and have ridden in the past but this isn't a good start.
     
  14. GT-Rx®

    GT-Rx® Administrator Staff Member

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    Yes, that is the adjuster the factory doesn't want you touching... but clearly is being ignored on set up. The threaded adjuster actually goes in for adjustment, not out. I would highly recommend finding someone that knows these to help you with it. It can go very wrong if it's not perfect as you've hopefully read. I've merged this post/thread.
     
  15. pnwv7

    pnwv7 Just got it firing!

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    I just didn't describe it well, the adjuster rod at the gearbox is turned in as far as it can go already (from dealer/factory). at the handlebar clutch lever adjustment the barrel adjuster was full out, I only turned it in to see how much slack it would create when it was where it should be for a new bike - I am very familiar with this standard adjustment at the handlebar clutch lever, it is the same for all motorcycles and bicycles I have.

    So the combination of the handlebar clutch lever adjustment barrel full out and the gearbox adjustment rod full so it looks like it came new with no way to adjust the clutch.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2017
  16. JACoH

    JACoH Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    I'd be interested to know what state the selling dealer is in for @pnwv7 - I am planning to buy a new v7 soon either in Oregon or Washington.
     
  17. MarkAWallace

    MarkAWallace Just got it firing!

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    I believe this is the problem I'm dealing with right now. Engine has 1024 miles and couldn't shift into neutral. Dealer originally told me that I had misadjusted the clutch cable. After informing him that I never touched it he called back a couple days later and said that a shim had broken in the shaft and the engine would have to be replaced. I would have felt better about his competence if he hadn't kept on calling it a "Motor Guzzi". I envision making the ride to Southern California for further services.
     
  18. GT-Rx®

    GT-Rx® Administrator Staff Member

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    Sounds like it Mark, thanks for the post. Mind posting your VIN# here and/or in the Registry thread? Motor Guzzi, ug.
    Uninformed Dealer MO, blame the customer first. Broken shim? How about omitted and the cause of several failures I am aware of. Ask to be compensated for the downtime in addition to the repair! Keep us posted on how it goes.
    Happy to be of help with any service. I have many friends and customers in Vegas. Perhaps a carpool, or I do have a Moto Towing company that gets to Vegas and back often.
     
  19. MarkAWallace

    MarkAWallace Just got it firing!

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    VIN is ZGUlWUB09GM200357. It's a good thing I know a dealer who has a room for rent and rents bikes while mine is being serviced. I can think of worse things that waiting for the bike to be serviced by riding the SoCal canyons.
     
    GT-Rx® likes this.
  20. pnwv7

    pnwv7 Just got it firing!

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    Wouldn't the engine serial number be more helpful since the motor is used for several different models?

    Mine isn't confirmed yet but my engine # is 014776

    Common tactic not specific to this is to blame the owner or claim it is "normal".
     

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