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V7C-S Suspension Thread

Discussion in 'V7/V85/V9 Chat & Tech' started by GT-Rx®, Mar 31, 2014.

  1. GT-Rx®

    GT-Rx® Administrator Staff Member

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    This thread will chronicle modifications for your '09-12 V7C-S (w/Marzocchi forks) & '13+ bikes (w/Kaifa forks). Feel free to add your notes/measurements below to be included.

    For purchase info on any below, see the Store tab above or click >HERE<.

    Data:
    Rider: 190 lbs./86 kgs. in street clothing
    Spec: Sport riding
    OAT: 58-62º F
    My test course is ~10 miles, starting on a very rough asphalt paved road with broken pavement. The bulk of the distance is on smoothly paved banked twisty canyon roads with center divide divots for reflectors, and big undulations/dips at high and low speeds. Video at the bottom of this post.


    FORKS:

    OEM Marzocchi Forks*:
    Total travel: 130mm
    Extended: 165mm
    Static sag: 130mm
    Laden: 115mm
    Target total sag: 43.33mm
    Total sag as delivered: 50mm (no easy adjustment avail)
    Notes: Visual compression of forks to near bottoming sitting on bike and applying force. Very little visible compression or rebound damping.
    Marzocchi Mupo Kit:
    140mm oil level w/10w
    Target Sag: ~43mm
    Total measured sag: 45mm kit installed out of box.
    Notes:
    (Mated with RG3 PB's below) Impressive low speed compliance. Very good ride under quick speeds, and high speed damping very very good. Under aggressive riding, the first time I felt and paid attention to chassis flex. A very first, as the suspension has been the weakest link.

    OEM Kaifa Forks*:
    With Mupo Kit installed as delivered, thanks Dmitri.
    120mm oil level w/10w
    Target Sag: ~43mm
    Total measured sag: 37mm*
    *He is going to reduce sag and report back.

    *I recommend pushing the forks up in the triple trees 10-20mm. This will help with stability and turn in for those who enjoy twisty road riding.

    SHOCKS:

    OEM Ollé Shocks
    2016 V7 II - 195# rider
    Extended: 370mm
    Static: 360mm
    Laden: 339mm
    Total sag as delivered: 31mm
    Set to: 38mm

    OEM BiTubo Shocks
    Total travel: 114mm
    Extended: 370mm
    Static sag: 364mm
    Laden: 343mm
    Target total sag: 38mm
    Total sag as delivered: 27mm*
    Notes: I didn't decrease the sag #'s due to a short initial ride showed visible bottoming of shock body (see pic 1 below). Shocks exhibited very little compression damping, and moderate rebound adjustment on all settings.

    GuzziTech SHOCK OPTIONS


    [​IMG]

    GTM S2W
    Length: 381-391mm - Can be made -20mm shorter for a 1" lower seat height (no charge - see video below as well)
    Static: 355mm
    Laden: 325mm (spring length set to 200.0mm)
    Out of box: 30mm - Target/set to: 38mm (-4 turns on preload)
    Rebound was +16
    Purchase info here; https://gtmotocycles.com/products/gtm-s2w-ifp-twin-shocks
    Notes:

    • The Shock Factory delivers an affordable series that is fully CNC machined, and made for durability, without sacrificing ride. We installed, dialed in sag, and balanced the damping to the stock forks. The shocks were built for our weight. Ride is markedly improved with both small and sharp edged bumps absorbed with little hit to the seat. Small ripples were also well absorbed, but still felt. Shocks are easily rebuildable by any suspension specialist and comes with a 2-year unlimited mile warranty.
    Install and set sag info below:



    [​IMG]
    K-Tech Razor III emulsion shocks (rebound and length adjustable)
    Length: 381-391mm
    Extended: 360mm
    Static: 355mm
    Laden: 322mm (spring length set to 200.0mm)
    Out of box: 36mm - Target/set to: 38mm (-1/3rd turn on preload)
    Rebound was +18 of 36, set to +24
    Notes:
    • UK-based K-Tech has been on the serious suspension radar and racing scene for many years. New to the twin shock market, we were sure not to be disappointed. Out of the box, there were some clearance issues to resolve (the solution will now be included with the shocks here from GuzziTech), set the sag and match the rebound to the GT hybrid kit forks, and ride. At first I was a touch concerned as the shocks felt too soft on the bench, and seem to lack rebound from what I'm used to. Couldn't have been more wrong on the ride. Happy to report that it is impressively good. Only criticism would be in hard hit bumps (high-speed compression) gave a sudden jolt, but this is a tough one with twin shocks. For the price and availability, along with much higher then average build quality, I am happy to include them in the GuzziTech offerings here on the Store page. Click image above for details and to order.

    V7-MATRISM40D.jpg
    M40D - Twin IFP shocks (rebound and length adjustable)

    Length: 388~397mm - arrived set to 390mm
    Extended: 374mm
    Static: 355mm
    Laden: 336mm
    Set target total sag: 38mm
    Total sag measured (out of the box): 10mm
    Rebound was +16 of 26 clicks, reduced to +10
    Notes:
    • This is the first pair of Internal Floating Piston (IFP) shocks I've installed where it was a wow, even when pulling it from the box. What an amazing shock. I set the sag (WAY too stiff as arrived), and balanced the rebound action front to rear, and rode. Usually the stiction out of the box always makes shocks seem way to firm, but this set, even on my choppy private road delivered and amazingly compliant ride. It was the first time I had to remind myself to think about the shocks, rather than the road on my 10 mile test loop (video now below). I wouldn't touch another thing, they are that good. Another triple thumbs up to Matris.

    V7-MATRISM40KC.jpg
    M40KC - Twin piggyback fully adjustable shocks(compression, rebound & length adjustable)

    Length: 388~397mm - arrived set to 390mm
    Extended: 374mm
    Static: 355mm
    Laden: 336mm
    Set target total sag: 38mm
    Total sag measured (out of the box): 10mm
    Compression was +12 of 26, reduced to +6
    Rebound was +16 of 26 clicks, reduced to +4
    Notes:
    • Matris never disappoints, another wow out of the box, and it should be at this price. This set, unlike the 40D above, took a few trips to dial in, and the stiction got better on every ride. Important to again note that all settings, including sag *must* be set out of the box. This set delivered a very advanced tractability, which came into it's own the harder I rode (used on the video shot below). Likely not an investment for many riders, but for those who are willing to spend the money on this set, you'll likely never look at another set of shocks the same way. Thanks yet again Matris.

    ****Mupo Suspension Options****

    V7-ST03.jpg
    ST03 - Twin IFP shocks (rebound and length adjustable)

    Extended: 369mm
    Static: 356mm
    Laden: 330mm
    Target total sag: 38mm
    Total sag measured (out of the box): 39mm
    Rebound was +8 of 16 clicks, reduced to +1
    Notes:
    • Edit: (I unknowingly had a lowered seat on the bike, so with a stock seat in place, my observations...) Shocks exhibited firm but controlled compression damping, and very good rebound damping set to +1 from full soft. Small sharp edged bumps were nicely absorbed, but still felt through the chassis, as were moderate bumps and dips. Clearly shows how poor the OEM front fork springs and damping rates are. Turn in of the bike with forks pulled 1/2" above the top triple, offers better turn in, and stability, but I will likely go more to help with the slow turn-in characteristics of the bike.
    V7-ST01.jpg
    ST01 - Twin piggyback fully adjustable shocks (compression, rebound & length adjustable)

    Extended: 369mm
    Static: 364mm
    Laden: 330mm
    Target total sag: 38mm
    Total sag measured (out of the box): 36mm > set to 39mm
    Compression arrived +16 of 26 > Set to +10 from full soft
    Rebound arrived +18 click 40 > Set to +7 from full soft
    Notes:
    • Shocks exhibited superior compression & rebound damping to the ST03 or BiTubo shocks. Small sharp edged bumps were mildly transferred to the rider. Moderate bumps and dips were transferred to the frame. Again showns how poor the OEM front fork springs and damping rates are. Turn in of the bike with forks pulled 1/2" above the top triple, offers more decisive turn in, and stability through the corners. The bike tracked noticeably better with the ST01s.

    ****Ohlins Advanced Suspension Technology****

    [​IMG]

    S36PL - Twin piggyback non-adjustable shocks (length only adjustable)
    Out of the box:
    Extended: 374mm
    Static: 369mm
    Laden: 332mm
    Total sag measured (out of the box): 42mm
    +3 turns of preload = Target total sag: 38mm

    Notes:

    • From the Italia division, these are on the firm side, but exhibit excellent bump absorption high and low speed. I ran them fully extended on the ride height adjuster, as I spec all of my truly custom build shocks at +20mm over stock. These go to +9mm over stock.

    ****RaceTech Suspension Options****

    RT-V7Shocks.jpg
    RT RG3 PB - Twin piggyback fully adjustable shocks (compression, rebound & length adjustable)

    Extended: 372mm
    Static: 358mm
    Laden: 330mm
    Target total sag: 38mm
    Total sag measured (as delivered): 42mm
    Compression arrived +2.5 rotations from full soft - left as delivered
    Rebound arrived +30 of 40 click range > Set to +10 from full soft
    Notes:
    • RT IFP Shocks exhibited superior compression & rebound damping to the BiTubo shocks. Small sharp edged bumps were barely felt. Moderate bumps and dips were transferred to the chassis. These shocks were built in-house at RT with the main tech putting 150 miles on the bike for tweaks. This design offers an impressive amount of travel, and they used all of it. I rate this shock as one of the best (so far), at a cost.

    BiTubo - Bottoms harshly:
    V7-BiTubo-Bttm.jpg

    Mupo ST03 & ST01 no feel of bottoming:
    V7-MupoST-Bttm.jpg

    Enjoy the ride with us below... you'll likely have to watch it more then once. Once to enjoy the ride, and once to watch the fork action:
     
    MOLT and scudracer like this.
  2. tonUPRacer

    tonUPRacer Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    Thanks for posting this Todd. I've got my BiTubos dialed in as good as I can for now. I think my issue is too stiff a spring. I did find a BiTubo dealer that would re-build my shocks with a lighter spring for my weight, so I'll most likely go that route for the rear. For the Front however I'm very interested in what you find with the Mupo kit. Interested in learning what type of improvements you see and learing about install / setup difficulty. I have the V7 service manual and the fork work seems to not too difficult. Most likelya next winter project, so I'll be saving pennies for suspension upgrades this summer.
     
  3. tyrreld

    tyrreld Just got it firing!

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    Great post Todd. It would be really interesting to eventually compare all shock and fork after-market options you carry, to the stock setup.
     
  4. GT-Rx®

    GT-Rx® Administrator Staff Member

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    My pleasure, and unless you are well under 170 lbs. in gear, a stiff spring isn't your problem, it's a too soft per my observations noted above.

    I now have put 100 miles on the new RT RG3's posted above and below. I'll follow up this weekend with more notes on them and the Mupo (Marzocchi) Fork Kit.

    The new Matris (Kaifa) Fork Kit and shocks are on the way to me now as well.

    Click on the pic for order info:
    [​IMG]
     
  5. tonUPRacer

    tonUPRacer Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    I weigh in at 135lb in gear so I'm pretty sure a softer spring is in order, but I'm going to test my travel. Right now I've got the rear working OK but I know it can be better.
     
  6. GT-Rx®

    GT-Rx® Administrator Staff Member

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    OK, so then you're likely too heavy of a spring and valving. The stock shocks and forks are targeted at 155-170 lbs with gear.
     
  7. makarushka

    makarushka Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Mupo fork kit and ST01 shocks on the V7R

    After about 500 miles on these suspension components on my 2013 V7R, here are some sag numbers and impressions.

    Front (Kaifa forks) with the MUPO fork kit:

    Spring and spacer as provided, without modifications. On the first install, the free/rider sags came to 15/37mm, and now after 500 miles it's 20/40; very much in the ballpark so I'll leave it alone for now. Possible next experimentation will be with the air gap (120mm currently).

    Rear, MUPO ST1 shocks:

    Preload adjusted (very little load on the spring) to get 12/36mm free/rider sag.

    Interestingly, Todd and I came to almost identical compression and rebound damping settings independently of each other: I settled on 18 clicks rebound and 10 compression, from full soft. Still playing with a click here and there but the ballpark is the same...

    After putting in these suspension upgrades and setting the sags I felt that the bike still had way too much rear weight bias for me, so I added 8mm to the shock length using the adjusters, and also dropped the front 10mm by raising the forks in the triple trees.

    The handling and control of the bike are transformed. The valving seems on the stiff side for sportier handling (how I generally prefer to set up my bikes) but does not neglect comfort for bumpy roads. In either case, much more confident feeling all around. Tracking and stability, both at high speed and low, are much improved.

    I will experiment with dropping the front some more.
     
  8. GT-Rx®

    GT-Rx® Administrator Staff Member

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    Re: Mupo fork kit and ST01 shocks on the V7R

    Thanks for posting. You're headed in the right direction on the front. I dropped mine 20mm.
    My V7R has been COMPLETELY transformed suspension/handling wise. I'm going to get some more seat time in here soon, as the current set up has <20 miles on it... and I'll go back and forth between stock and rear shock options to compare still, as well as I'm getting Matris' offerings in here within the next few weeks, so I'll report back again then.

    Watch for my post soon on the complete transformation under separate heading. Anyone is welcome to come demo the bike with any of the shock combos and Mupo Fork Kit; You can give it a whirl at; RentAGuzzi.com - I offer half days rates Monday-Thursday.
    Contact me direct email for additional info here or through the rental site. Todd at GuzziTech.com
     
  9. pyoungbl

    pyoungbl Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    I think I have finally found a good balance between the front and rear suspension on my V7 Special. Today I put in just 20 miles as a test of the new setup. The suspension is much more supple, no hobby horse action, expansion joints don't launch me from the seat, the front end soaks up more of the action and is more in balance with the rear. Now for the numbers:

    The shocks are Race Tech, don't know the spring specs but I did have RT re-valve the shocks for less dampening. Now I have 40mm race sag on the rear and am not bottoming out.

    At the front end I now have .80kg springs (4.60mm wire), 150mm spacer (that gives 7mm preload on the spring), and 140mm air gap with 10W fork oil. Free sag is about 3mm, race sag is 30mm, and total travel over a 20 mile loop was 48mm. I suspect these numbers will get a bit larger once I have put real miles on the suspension. It is worth noting that RT initially spec'd stiffer springs, .95kg and they were entirely too stiff. I weigh about 200 lb with gear

    While trying to get the front end sorted out I tried various amounts of preload, 165, 160, and 150mm; various amounts of air gap (140mm, 150mm, 160mm.) It's fairly easy to make these swaps once you have done the drill a time or two. All this has buggered up my fork caps so I have a new pair on order from AF1, back ordered but only $16 each. That's a much better price than another dealer quoted at $64! A word of advice, it helps to grind a socket flat so you can get a better grip on those fork caps.
     
  10. GT-Rx®

    GT-Rx® Administrator Staff Member

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    I spent another half day swapping out rear shocks yesterday, and added my notes for the Matris offerings to the first post of this thread. Matris: Very nice stuff.
    For anyone interested in any of these items, I want to extend the offer to come demo them for yourself, either on your bike, or on our V7R rental (RentAGuzzi.com). If you rent the V7R, I will apply 50% of the rental rate towards the purchase of a shock & fork kit. I'll also offer free installation for the first taker for the Matris Fork Kit for the Kaifa forks (and I'll happily swap out the shocks in inventory for you to test/sample). Who will be first?

    Come enjoy a nice leisurely ride on our hill... you'll have to watch it at least twice. Once for the view, and once to watch the forks.

     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2014
  11. Gruzzer

    Gruzzer Tuned and Synch'ed

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    put me on the list for the Matris Kit for the Kaifa Forks. great video, i can't wait to take the same ride home after mine are installed!
     
  12. yukonica

    yukonica Tuned and Synch'ed GT Contributor

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    Received an installed a pair of Mupo ST03 today. It has transformed the bike. Former wallowing through 150 kmh sweepers is now 'set the course and apply throttle'. (of course this is only hypothetical because I'd never exceed the posted limit)
    Todd: you rock. Crappy stuff going on in your life, me screwing up exchange rates (twice), and yet the items arrived as promised on time, fully ready to install. You have earned my respect as well as my future business. Thank you.
    Yukonica.
     
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  13. Gruzzer

    Gruzzer Tuned and Synch'ed

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    I have been AM (After Matris) for about 2 months now and I could not be happier with them.
    I purchased both the shocks and front fork kit - https://www.guzzitech.com/store/product/v7-standard-twin-shocks/ and https://www.guzzitech.com/store/product/matris-v7-full-fork-kit/

    I do a good mix of freeway, city and canyon driving and the transformation is beyond comparison to the stock setup. I can even go as far to say - this is the best suspension setup I have ever ridden (granted I have limited riding experience but true nonetheless).

    Rebound, Compression, overall feel of the bike, corning - all make me smile. I used to curse if hit a pothole / bump as it would inevitably travel up and jolt me but now the suspension takes it all in stride.

    The look of the shocks are also superb and adjusting the pre-load for a 2 up is a quick allen wrench away. If you are thinking of upgrading, this is the way to go.
     
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  14. Gruzzer

    Gruzzer Tuned and Synch'ed

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    Adding photos of the rear Suspension.


    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2014
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  15. tonUPRacer

    tonUPRacer Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    Just got my Racer back after having the Matris fork (K-fork) installed. I was hoping for some improvement, but I'm simply amazed at the change, and I haven't even touched the pre-load/sag yet. I've only taken two short rides (about 40 miles) over typical back roads and its like a completely new bike. The front feels solid and planted, soaks up bumps and feels like it turns in quicker and holds the lines better. What is most shocking is that the rear also feels better. I was afraid I was going to have to replace the BiTubos but I may be able to work with what I have. Unfortunately, I'll have to wait for spring before I can get things all dialed in (riding days are now limited here in WI) but my first impressions are VERY positive. I'd encourage anyone that is unhappy with your V7s suspension to start at the front with the Matris Kit. You will not be disappointed.
     
  16. Big Kahuna

    Big Kahuna Just got it firing!

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    That's good to hear Tonup.... I'm in a similar situation as you were. I was going to start with the front forks and Todd has recommended the appropriate kit for me. I'm assuming that you went with one of the Matris kits on a non adjustable stock fork? You said that you havent gotten around to pre load and sag on the rear.... Have you been provided any recommendations on preload and sag to help you dial things in?
    Glad to hear that initially things feel that much better!
     
  17. Mal W

    Mal W Just got it firing! GT Contributor

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    Todd, how much travel do these shocks provide, and how cheaply can we get the ST01s to Australia?

    Thanks, Mal
     
  18. GT-Rx®

    GT-Rx® Administrator Staff Member

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    Mal, direct email sent. Travel info shown above. Let me know here if you don't see it.
     
  19. tonUPRacer

    tonUPRacer Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    yes, I went with the Matris kit since I have the Kaifa fork. I can't recall offhand what the recommended settings for static sag are, I think maybe btw 20 and 30 mm. There's a lot of online guides for getting setup. here's a link to one: http://www.sportrider.com/suspension-setup-guide?dom=sri&loc=rightrail&lnk=suspension-setup-guide My biggest problem is finding the time and a helper! My winter project is to get some weight appropriate front springs and then re-assess the rear. How much do you weigh?
     
    Big Kahuna likes this.
  20. francod123

    francod123 Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    I've had my Matris rear shocks on for a little bit but still dialing things in and was looking back at the information sheet that came with my shocks, and had some questions.

    As you see in the picture, the springs rate is listed at 25 N/mm. Does that seem correct for a 165lbs rider (gear factored in)?

    Also, where it says "preload mm: 15," is that a recommended setting based on my specs or is that just what it came with?

    Same for the rebound section, where it says # of clicks at 26. What exactly are they telling me here, because there are more than 26 useable clicks, so is this a recommended setting for me?

    And lastly, on the right it shows how to adjust length, but really it's an inverted view from what it really looks like, and I'm not quite sure which of those two nuts (or both?) to turn.

    I haven't had a chance to specifically dial in sag, etc because of needing others to help, so I've been going off of feel for now, and plus I haven't replaced the front end yet, so it's hard to tell if the back is dialed in correctly since the front is so bad. Thanks in advance for any input.
    IMG_3983.JPG
     

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