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V85 Engine Comparo Banter

Discussion in 'V7/V85/V9 Chat & Tech' started by Poppe, Jun 22, 2019.

  1. Poppe

    Poppe Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    I agree, but that’s why I laugh at our friends across the pond and their rush to review the bike and do the comparisons. “What bike should we compare it too, how about a tiger, gs, and Africa twin” haha
     
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  2. roadscum

    roadscum Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    One notable reason I wouldn't compare it to those you reference is the motor. None of those are V-twins which has power characteristics far different then The parallel motors configuration in the bike you reference.

    Paul
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2019
  3. GuzziMoto

    GuzziMoto GT Reference GT Contributor

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    Eeehhh, not that different. The sideways mounting of the engine is the biggest difference. Being a V twin vs a parallel twin (or a flat twin) is not that big a difference.
     
  4. kiwi dave

    kiwi dave GT Reference

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    So a Goose is very different than a Duck, but not that different to a parallel or flat twin in your opinion?

    Sorry, I agree with Paul.
     
  5. vagrant

    vagrant High Miler GT Contributor

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    Hog wash!
    Go ride a versys 650 once.
    Night and day difference!
     
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  6. roadscum

    roadscum Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Not sure how you define 'that much difference".
    V/flat wins are noted for the greater low-mid range torques and very flat torque curve. It's not uncommon for parallels twins to have more HP the V-Twins. The heptic feed back the rides receives is completely different. I find the v/flat to have characteristics more to my liking. Sure, in the end they are both internal combustion engines but with different characteristics. As always, YMMV.

    Paul
     
  7. GuzziMoto

    GuzziMoto GT Reference GT Contributor

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    I did not say a Guzzi is very different than a Duck, unless it is a Superbike Duck.
    Ducati's tend to rev higher and more more Hp and less Torque compared to Guzzi motors. The Duc superbike based motors more so that the two valve motors. But not counting the superbike motors Duc motors and Guzzi motors are not that different. Different? Sure. But not that different.
     
  8. GuzziMoto

    GuzziMoto GT Reference GT Contributor

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    I have ridden a Versys (and a Ninja 650). They aren't that different motor-wise from a small block Guzzi. They are a lot different compared to a big block Guzzi.
     
  9. GuzziMoto

    GuzziMoto GT Reference GT Contributor

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    Sorry, the angle of the V is not what determines if a twin makes more Hp or more torque. That is far more about the bore to stroke ratio, the number and size of valves, cams, and details like rod length.
    Some V twins are more about torque, like HD. But others are more about hp, like the Ducati's. Guzzi's tend to be somewhere in the middle, not super torquey nor are they about max hp.
     
  10. vagrant

    vagrant High Miler GT Contributor

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    until you have to adjust the valves!
     
  11. roadscum

    roadscum Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Given equal displacement V/flat twins are, in general, likely to be tuned for more torques in the low/mid RPM range and poses a very flat torque curve. The Duc is a different animal, that motor config have perfect balance and because of that is able to rev higher with less vibration.... Sure, counter balance shaft can help to smooth motors not in natural balance.

    Paul
     
  12. GuzziMoto

    GuzziMoto GT Reference GT Contributor

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    True, you got me there. I would actually pay someone to adjust the valves on the wifes Monster, while I happily do the valves on our four Guzzi's, even the Daytona.
     
  13. GuzziMoto

    GuzziMoto GT Reference GT Contributor

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    As mentioned, Ducati's aren't about torque, they are about hp. Other V twins that are about hp include the RC51, the RSV, the XV (SXV and RXV), and the TLR.
    The type of twin, the angle of the V if it is a V twin, and even the layout of the crankshaft, can change how well it puts the power down. The intervals between the power pulses don't change the amount of power the engine makes, but it can change the way it puts the power to the ground. That can help improve traction. Yamaha have a parallel twin with a 90 degree crank that has the compactness of the parallel twin but the engine firing pattern and balance of a 90 degree V twin.
     
  14. Stradagene

    Stradagene Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Famiglia

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    What about the Triumph Street Twin?
     
  15. vagrant

    vagrant High Miler GT Contributor

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    still a parallel twin with a 270 crank. Nothing but a want to be a 90 V!
     
  16. Stradagene

    Stradagene Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Famiglia

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    Yes... yes...

    Screen Shot 2019-08-28 at 3.37.08 PM.png

    GuzziMoto, Your thoughts/insights?
     
  17. GuzziMoto

    GuzziMoto GT Reference GT Contributor

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    Yeah, the Triumph Street Twin is doing what Yamaha did years ago. It changes the feel of the engine, and the way it puts it power down. But it really doesn't change the power it makes and where in the rpm range it makes it.
    That is a lightly oversquare twin that makes more horsepower than torque, but not in an extreme way like a 4 valve water cooled Ducati V twin. The Triumph is also fairly mildly tuned, 65 hp @ 7500 rpm is less power than a V11 but around the same rpms.
    Honda did a similar trick with the Honda 650 Hawk GT. It had a V engine with something like a 57 degree V angle and then they offset the crank to get to the 90 degree interval between the cylinders. It worked well enough, but for racers it sucked as if you pushed the engine far enough power wise it would break the crank. An offset crank like that is either heavier than a standard crank, not as strong as a standard crank, or some combination of the two.
     
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