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Valve noise

G

gdp

Cruisin' Guzzisti
Joined
Jul 19, 2011
Messages
164
Location
Nashville, TN
..having become accustomed to the additional valve noise of my Stelvio...while riding home in stop-and- go traffic, the volume of noise doubled while at a light.A ratty-tat noise...DAMN...Valves adjusted 2500miles ago,oil level good, got home, cleaned up, (30 minutes), and fired it up, and noise back to 'normal' level...should I be alarmed? Can this be the dreaded end-float noise?....Whatever that is?...18000 miles on '09 Stelvio, recall done before delivery...does the heat build-up of traffic commuting cause a 'loosening' of tolerances?
 
Thanks...will do...Oil color fine...Still under warranty...and with extended warranty I should be OK...
 
Well... :roll: that is how my cam failure sounded, arghh. The 2010 model had no recalls.. but guess what!!
Sounds like they still have bucket of lousy parts floating around? Should be covered under warranty still....
 
pnguzzi said:
Well... :roll: that is how my cam failure sounded, arghh. The 2010 model had no recalls.. but guess what!!
Sounds like they still have bucket of lousy parts floating around? Should be covered under warranty still....
Click to expand...
...Damn...I love this Stelvio more than any machine I've ever had, riding since 1967, and the almost legendary sturdiness of Guzzi engines...does anyone know what is actually happening to these machines ?And is it ONLY STELVIO,? not Griso??..and only in France? And Nashville...Starting to think about how much I've paid, instead of how much I love it.
 
I don't think it is either a hardness or intrinsically a design issue. i haven't actually had one fail that I can examine first hand but my strong suspicion is that the failures occur when for some reason the tappets cease to spin. Various broken parts I've examined have led me to believe that the tappet ceae to spin BEFORE they fail. The obvious question that begs though is why and why only on some engines in some markets???

Pete
 
pete roper said:
I don't think it is either a hardness or intrinsically a design issue. i haven't actually had one fail that I can examine first hand but my strong suspicion is that the failures occur when for some reason the tappets cease to spin. Various broken parts I've examined have led me to believe that the tappet cease to spin BEFORE they fail. The obvious question that begs though is why and why only on some engines in some markets??? Pete
Click to expand...

Pete -- two questions:

First, (I can't find a picture of the components) but in a cam/tappet design, isn't the design generally set up so the contact area of the cam lobe is just slightly off of the center of the tappet, so the tappet is rotated as a result of the contact and the cam lobe/tappet contact spread over a larger area? If this design is like that, what can keep the tappet from rotating?
Second, in the other discussion about cam failures, flushing the lube oil system and changing the lube oil pump is discussed as a requirement because of debris in the system. Shouldn't the lube oil filter remove any system debris before it gets into the engine oil galleries and on to the bearings, etc?
 
...at dealer, sure enough, the intake clearances had opened up...adjusted everything, closed it up, and still the same noise...warranty people are ON BOARD, thankfully, and so dealer is going into the left side to diagnose further...(lleft-bank has the majority of the noise)...
On this bike, the buckets were changed prior to original delivery, but not the cams, as it had not been ridden, ( so I'm told by warranty people.)... I asked the obvious question: If we run into problem A on the left bank, shouldn't we open up the right bank?...they agreed...keep you posted...GDP
 
pete roper said:
Absolutely no point in doing anything unless they go in and inspect the oil pump and clean out the sump.

Pete
Click to expand...
...Thanks again, Pete,....I diplomatically suggested this to the technician that's attacking this problem...I say 'diplomatically', because they can take it to mean that one is implying a certain incompetence in these types of phone calls....which is not the intent at all....to which he responded ...got to find the cause of the noise first. He's right of course,.... Nothing pisses a mechanic off more than people (like me) getting on the Internet and becoming instant experts...
 
pete roper said:
Absolutely no point in doing anything unless they go in and inspect the oil pump and clean out the sump.

Pete
Click to expand...
...suggested,(diplomatically), that we need to check those two items....I say diplomatically, because I didn't want to imply that he wouldn't have the competence to do so...keep you posted...
 
I more than suggested that to the Guzzi tech folks and my shop of choice. They were unwilling to consider getting into the oil pump, they (guzzi and the shop) say that the screens, pump location etc., where specifically designed to "resist" the metals getting into it. So cam and tappets replace and balance left alone! :D
Down the road I go! so far so good!! :dry:
 
Aw Shit..... Hope you're lucky! :roll:

No wonder there are stories of repeat failures and a reputation for unreliability. Obviously nothing should be sold today unless it is 'Maintenance Free' and requires nothing more than overpriced oil changes.

Pete
 
pete roper said:
Aw Shit..... Hope you're lucky! :roll:

No wonder there are stories of repeat failures and a reputation for unreliability. Obviously nothing should be sold today unless it is 'Maintenance Free' and requires nothing more than overpriced oil changes.

Pete
Click to expand...

You nailed it Pete

nailonhead.jpg

About says it all.

Valve train fix is the easy part and relatively quick fix.
 
...The saga continues...in an over abundance of caution, the technician at my local Guzzi palace is sending the left bank only, at Guzzi's request...even though it makes sense to both he and I that we go straightway into the right bank as well...Guzzi will evaluate the cam(s)? from the left and either send us that side replacement parts, or, more likely, seeing that the cam has absolutely NO remaining 'surface', and is, in effect, gouging a life story of its own, will say, "Tear into the right bank as well, as this is classic cam failure"......
We are complying to the letter,not wanting to make waves,as they should have to pay the tab.
In a related developement, I have found that this bike(09), has had the cam recall...but, since it had not been ridden, they replaced the buckets only, not the cams...will keep you posted...thank god for warranties...
 
gdp said:
...The saga continues...in an over abundance of caution, the technician at my local Guzzi palace is sending the left bank only, at Guzzi's request...even though it makes sense to both he and I that we go straightway into the right bank as well...Guzzi will evaluate the cam(s)? from the left and either send us that side replacement parts, or, more likely, seeing that the cam has absolutely NO remaining 'surface', and is, in effect, gouging a life story of its own, will say, "Tear into the right bank as well, as this is classic cam failure"......
We are complying to the letter,not wanting to make waves,as they should have to pay the tab.
In a related developement, I have found that this bike(09), has had the cam recall...but, since it had not been ridden, they replaced the buckets only, not the cams...will keep you posted...thank god for warranties...
Click to expand...


Well that explains alot.
 
...By the way, what do they surface these cams with?...Which, according to my tech, has 'completely worn away and started scoring what remains of the cam itself?'...
 
...Which brings up the next obvious question:...if the cam surfaces are 'completely gone' according to my tech who has seen them...(1): where does all that surfacing reside? In the sump? In the filters? In the oil? In the rod bearings?...and, (2): Since they didn't change the cams in the recall, and replaced only the buckets...then...what if 6 months down the road I lose rod bearings due to debris that's traceable back to the fact that they DIDNT replace cams according to their own protocol?....am I still under warranty?...?..Am I over thinking this? Suggestions??...DAMN...I'm starting to sound like a lawyer...(not)
 
gdp said:
...Which brings up the next obvious question:...if the cam surfaces are 'completely gone' according to my tech who has seen them...(1): where does all that surfacing reside? In the sump? In the filters? In the oil? In the rod bearings?...and, (2): Since they didn't change the cams in the recall, and replaced only the buckets...then...what if 6 months down the road I lose rod bearings due to debris that's traceable back to the fact that they DIDNT replace cams according to their own protocol?....am I still under warranty?...?..Am I over thinking this? Suggestions??...DAMN...I'm starting to sound like a lawyer...(not)
Click to expand...

The above questions highlight why Pete says for any cam failure, the oil pump and sump should be checked. For your own piece of mind, I'd suggest after they "fix" it, to trade it in on a new Stelvio.
 
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