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Valve noise

Ideally with a strip, inspect and back-flush. My own feeling is that the cooler will catch most of the crap but I'd make sure to blew out the galleries with a shitload of compressed air to make sure they were clear!

Pete
 
How much damage can happen to the oil pumps by one-two bits that made it once through the meshes?
I suppose that minor scoring plays no major role and this can be verified by some oil pressure instrument after completely cleaning the rest of the engine, or not?
Or ANY visible scoring means "change the pump"?

I also suppose that any bits traveling throughout the cooling circuit could make quite a few circles before sucked through the lubrication circuit and trapped by the filter, right?
So eventually the cooling pump can go "ping!" and heavy degradation of over cooked oil can occur much sooner than any noticeable lubrication side related failure?

Are the pumps both contained in one piece shell or are they two distinct mechanisms?
 
Well I had the problem, and since I had 2mm valveplay, it should be somewhere. I took front off, got the pump out : nothing. I took oilpan off, clean like new. I could't find anything in the engine. I filted the oil: nothing.

One good thing, for the a5 engines they made new cams that need the spacers like the newer engines. So when you have such an engine: the cams should be part 8792704 With spacers! Guzzi doesn't send spacers, the dealer should look in the parts book and find them. I know that they not all do
 
If you do a search on V11.com you'll find some fairly 'orrible pictures of what Belfast Dave found in his sump when he dropped it after it had been repaired and 'Flushed' as recommended by the factory. Look, I'll be really happy if damage is a rarity but the blokes at Haywards in England have done a LOT of cam replacements and they usually find that the pump is compromised.

Am I right about the need to inspect and clean everything? I can't say for 100% certain but I do know that if I'd spent $22,000 on a motorbike and its engine had gone tits in warranty I'd be very disappointed. I don't like my customers being disappointed and will do my damnest to ensure that their vehicle is repaired properly. The *problem* I have is that I can't get one to break! This isn't because I'm some sort of genius or have a magic wand, I really just service them 'By The Book'. Yes, I get my customers to come back a couple of extra times in the first 10,000 Km and check the valve clearances religiously during the early life of the engine, (The newer engines don't seem to suffer as much from the reduction in valve clearance experienced by some early motors.) and I use a top flight oil with higher than usual levels of Zinc and Phosphorous. Apart from those things which may be completely irrelevant I just do what it sez in the service schedule. I can't break one!

Pete
 
...I'm just gonna ride the thing, and if in 9 months and one day she blows up...so be it...gdp
 
gdp said:
...I'm just gonna ride the thing, and if in 9 months and one day she blows up...so be it...gdp
Click to expand...

I think I would inspect the pumps. Not a horrible job. If the pumps aren't scored, then ride it. If they are, then do more inspecting and cleaning.

I'm going to continue adding ZDDP to the oil. I know it is snake oil, and may be a waste of $$$, but I'm feeling better about using it.
 
pete roper said:
gdp said:
...even if the pump is contaminated, that oil too will be filtered down the line...
Click to expand...

Only the lubrication side. The cooling side is unfiltered.

Pete
Click to expand...
...obviously I don't understand...as I take this to mean that there would be two separate quantities of oil...what am I missing?...
 
gdp said:
pete roper said:
gdp said:
...even if the pump is contaminated, that oil too will be filtered down the line...
Click to expand...

Only the lubrication side. The cooling side is unfiltered.

Pete
Click to expand...
...obviously I don't understand...as I take this to mean that there would be two separate quantities of oil...what am I missing?...
Click to expand...

The physical pump has 2 different impellers with 2 outputs with a common pickup from the sump one outlet goes through the filter and supplies the hard parts in the motor Bearings, under piston cooling etc the other ouput supplies unfiltered oil to the oil cooler the output of the cooler supplies oil to the head for cooling and all the valve train bits. About as best I can describe it. So if you got debris in the oil both impellers will get damaged and degraded
 
Yes, but it's more of a bypass system than a full-flow system as only the 'Lubrication' circuit goes through the spin on filter. Dan's description is pretty accurate apart from the fact that there are also two separate pick-ups. The inverted 'Umbrella' type pick-up with a weir behind it which picks up for the 'Lubrication' circuit and the nasty 'sock-on-a-pipe' pickup that strains the cooling oil. Because the cooling oil doesn't go through a microfine filter any shit that gets through the pump has the oportunity to block the oil cooler vanes, banjos and galleries in the heads.

Pete
 
pete roper said:
Yes, but it's more of a bypass system than a full-flow system as only the 'Lubrication' circuit goes through the spin on filter. Dan's description is pretty accurate apart from the fact that there are also two separate pick-ups. The inverted 'Umbrella' type pick-up with a weir behind it which picks up for the 'Lubrication' circuit and the nasty 'sock-on-a-pipe' pickup that strains the cooling oil. Because the cooling oil doesn't go through a microfine filter any shit that gets through the pump has the oportunity to block the oil cooler vanes, banjos and galleries in the heads.

Pete
Click to expand...
How corse is the cooling oil "sock" pickup Peter? I cant imagine anything that could get through even a rudimentary screen being large enough to block cooler and exhaust port galleries.
Ultimately all the oil that ends up in the sump will be filtered at some point.
BTW discussed with technical brains trust about the use of the later 8V hollow lifters and "ickle bickle" pushrod mod for the Centauro engine I'm preparing for the V11 and should be doable. I'll machine up some lifters and have them hardened and we came to a conclusion on how to machine the original rockers to suit.
I'm also going to ditch the oil bath cam lube system with only 1 oil feed hole in the centre of the camshaft to a lube hole just before the opening ramp on each lobe. See any issues with this?
Ciao
 
Individual 'Chips and bits'? No. But if the first one hangs up, then another bit comes along, then some more.... Th hiles in the banjos aren't huge, nor are the rdiator vanes in the oil cooler.

There was a post a while back about a Stelvio that has shat the tappets and then, after the 'Flush' sollution no oil was getting to one head. Lubrication side? Cooling side? No idea! I just hate the idea of particulate matter floating around inside the engine.

As for the early Hi-Cam mods. I really can't say. Would you like me to send you a Nuovo Hi-cam tappet to play with?

Pete
 
pete roper said:
Individual 'Chips and bits'? No. But if the first one hangs up, then another bit comes along, then some more.... Th hiles in the banjos aren't huge, nor are the rdiator vanes in the oil cooler.

There was a post a while back about a Stelvio that has shat the tappets and then, after the 'Flush' sollution no oil was getting to one head. Lubrication side? Cooling side? No idea! I just hate the idea of particulate matter floating around inside the engine.

As for the early Hi-Cam mods. I really can't say. Would you like me to send you a Nuovo Hi-cam tappet to play with?

Pete
Click to expand...
Thanks Pete,if you have an old knackered tappet and/or tiny pushrod that would be excellent. I may as well get you to send me one of your sump plates as well,as I'm a bit more financial at present.
The tappets in my early motor are all knackered on the cam face as usual but one is also damaged on the rocker end and has also taken out the surface on the rocker pad.Was going to convert the rocker into a roller type where it runs on the lifter but with the ridiculous cost of lifters I figure I would make my own out of something decent and get them Plasma nitrided along with the cam.
The reality is though I think the later little pushrod system is a better design and its easier to make the lifter on the lathe.The only remotely tricky bit is cutting the seat for the little pushrod in the bottom of the hollow lifter and in the rocker pad.As long as Guzzi have made the pushrod balls a standard cutter size then all will be straight forward.If they havent I will need to make my own pushrods.I'll PM you my address.
BTW dropped off my cylinders to Electrosil today for replating and honing to the new pistons.Not cheap but hopefully good.Will report on what they turn out like.
Ciao
 
...not to sound impertinent, but didn't Guzzi 'marathon-test' these engines to some degree before making them available to the public?...don't get me wrong, I LOVE this Stelvio. My first Guzzi...but, I hoped I was getting one of those legendary 200thousand-mile units that I gullibly heard about...I like this Stelvio a lot more than my Triumph Tiger but the Tiger doesn't break...90000 miles and semi- strong...
 
gdp said:
...not to sound impertinent, but didn't Guzzi 'marathon-test' these engines to some degree before making them available to the public?...don't get me wrong, I LOVE this Stelvio. My first Guzzi...but, I hoped I was getting one of those legendary 200thousand-mile units that I gullibly heard about...I like this Stelvio a lot more than my Triumph Tiger but the Tiger doesn't break...90000 miles and semi- strong...
Click to expand...

I'm with you on this one, my first guzzi, bought to ride in all weather conditions and to rack up some mega milleage. I've managed just 3500 miles sinse October 2011, so far it has spent 8 or 9 weeks garaged...

I know there are plenty that have done 10's of 1000's of miles without a single problem but with respect that's scant comfort to those of us having, silly, problems that keep the bike of the road and needing home made (well, pete's home :) ) parts or NGK caps, it's almost like rubbing salt into a wound... :angry:

windy (bikeless as it happens, well until Saturday, I hope)
 
af1-windy said:
gdp said:
...not to sound impertinent, but didn't Guzzi 'marathon-test' these engines to some degree before making them available to the public?...don't get me wrong, I LOVE this Stelvio. My first Guzzi...but, I hoped I was getting one of those legendary 200thousand-mile units that I gullibly heard about...I like this Stelvio a lot more than my Triumph Tiger but the Tiger doesn't break...90000 miles and semi- strong...
Click to expand...

I'm with you on this one, my first guzzi, bought to ride in all weather conditions and to rack up some mega milleage. I've managed just 3500 miles sinse October 2011, so far it has spent 8 or 9 weeks garaged...

I know there are plenty that have done 10's of 1000's of miles without a single problem but with respect that's scant comfort to those of us having, silly, problems that keep the bike of the road and needing home made (well, pete's home :) ) parts or NGK caps, it's almost like rubbing salt into a wound... :angry:

windy (bikeless as it happens, well until Saturday, I hope)
Click to expand...
...Exactly...this all started April20... And here it is...still no bike...lost the brilliant spring weather...June1...and still no cam...AND...my dealer is not going into the right bank until we get the left bank buttoned up...his explanation is That ...if we open up both cyl. Banks at the same time, then it adds to the complexity of re-timing the engine...which is probably true somehow, but if the right side is messed up, then I'll presumably have to wait for parts( again)....this is all over my head, mechanically, but, can anyone tell me why it's so much more complex to re-time two cyl banks than just the one?....puzzled...gdpn
 
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