What should I do with my 1978 1000SP?

[yamanx]

I have a 78 1000SP and was wondering what the hot nut setup for the motor is on those? Also what is a good setup for the suspension, all of mine needs to be replaced.

This bike literally hasn't had anything done to it since 82 and needs a lot of attention and I sure as hell don't wanna put it back stock. I plan to race it out at a local street track from time to time so I want her to be quick.

Open to all suggestions!

 

[Chris R]

The SP1000 is a good starting point - it has the nicasils and the heads actually flow a bit better than the (slightly) larger valved lemans heads. Most of my mods are made to make the bike more reliable/sweeter to ride.

For the motor I would:
- Fit 36mm Dellortos - there is nothing wrong with Mikunis etc but there is nothing really wrong with Dellortos either and there is a lot of knowledge on how to tune them. Fit the lightest springs available.The oval K&Ns are the ones to use.
- Lighten the flywheel. I think todd still does machining. Go with the wide spline hubs if it isn't in the bike. This will transform the bike - some like a heavy flywheel - I don't.
- Set the squish to about 40 thou - See George Dockery's recent post on how to do it.
- If money allows put a hotter cam in. Do check the lifters as they tend to pit. Megacycle are really the only choice these days- they use new steel blanks. ALWAYS put in new or resurfaced lifters when replacing the cam. Todd sells them so give him a call on which one to pick.
- Think about bumping up the compression ratio - pistons might be a problem though. If so twin plugging is useful if you set up the bike properly. This can get expensive.
- Sort out the breather system by removing the PCV valves, lightly stuffing the breather box with stainless steel wool and fitting a PCV valve AFTER the box.
- Sump extension and Pete Roper's windage plate are also good ideas.
- Fit the alternator cover spacer if not already fitted - this reduces the heat of the rotor and cost like nothing.
- A new high torque starter is almost required if you up the compression. THis also lets you run a smaller battery.
- Straight pipes without the front crossover and Lafrancone's are a good bet.
- An electronic ignition is nice as the points are a pain and can't be set accurately - the dyna is ok and relatively cheap and reliable if fitted with the correct coils - which should be replaced at this point anyway. While you are at it fit solid wire cables with NGK plugs.
- Set the thing up properly. Most people neglect this! Time the engine properly and record where you are. Get a good selection of jets and read the Dellorto tuning guide.

I would not:
- Fit timing gears - not worth the cash and potential problems as they sometimes disintegrate and do not offer an measurable performance gains.
- lighten valve gear, fit needle bearings etc. Polish this or that. Again there is little power here and the motor as it comes from the factory is fine.
- Other expensive go faster mods - its an engine designed for police plunkers anyhow. As Pete Roper says love it for what it is not for what it isn't.

Suspension
The original front end is a bit of a flexi-flyer
- Buy good tires before you start playing. Get the pressures right.
- Lower/raise the forks in the triple tree until you find what is happy
- Fit a fork brace (Tarozzi still do one?)
- FIt FAC dampers
- Some people fit Wurth or Progressive springs - haven't so can't comment.
- If you want to go whole hog fit a front end off a rice rocket. I think Todd has some info on the forum on how to do it. These tend to have 4-6 pot brakes so there will be a dramatic improvement in that area. I personally like the linked brakes.
- Fit new rear shock absorbers because the original are toast - the only thing is to find ones you can afford! The prices of shocks is crazy these days IMO.

Redo all wiring and fit an electronic regulator - they again are cheap. Guzzi has about twice the wire as needed and strange ideas about grounds. THe bosch system is simple, easy to sort and reliable if a little underpowered especially at low revs.

 

[Morizzi]

The SP1000 is a good starting point - it has the nicasils

78 SP should have iron bores, not nigasil or nikasil. :roll:

Get the thing running, put a spring timing chain tensioner in it, grease the splines, give it a full service then ride it.

So much depends on what you want and expect.

After that you can start to alter it to your taste or get rid of it if it doesn't come close to your expectations without having spent a fortune.

Just my opinion excedpt for the iron bores.

Rod

 

[Chris R]

78 SP should have iron bores, not nigasil or nikasil.

Mine did! But it was fifth hand by the time I got it and someone along the way may have fitted Gilardonis. I have a feeling that 78 was the transition year - if it was no doubt Guzzi used up what they had so some some may not.

If your bike is fitted with iron bores fit Nikasils- this is the single best mod you can do!

The aftermarket tensioner is the go.

I have to agree with what Morizzi says - ride it and then figure out where you want to take it. It won't be cheap but you might learn a lot.

 

[Amboman]

The transition to Nigusil was '81 - both my '79 SP and '80 G5 still had iron liners. Absolutely nothing wrong with them either and I wouldn't swap them out for Gilardonis unless they were damaged or worn.

 

[yamanx]

Chris,

I have rode the bike for a while now and just looking to pep it up a little bit. Right now it doesn't have mufflers on it so it has 0 bottom end, that is an issue that needs to be addressed first. I found a nice looking set of the LaFranconi's on Harper Moto so I will see about getting those.

My bike has the Dellorto 30's on it and I like them. Do you see a big difference if you upgrade to the Dellorto 40s instead?

Where can I find some aftermarket cams for the bike? I have not had much luck finding too many places online that sell aftermarket engine parts for these bikes. The bike is already equipped with electronic ignition so that is something I don't have to mess with, maybe get new coils.

So do these bikes not come with any chain tensioner? And the one you guys mention the same as the one from MG Cycle, http://www.mgcycle.com/product_info.php?products_id=347

Thanks for all the good info guys!

 

[john zibell]

40mm Del 'Ortos would be too large. They would only work well at very high RPM on that bike. The 30s work well, but some may say the 36s would be better. It depends on the RPM range you want to ride in. I have a spreadsheet where you can plug in the bore, stroke and carb diameter to calculate the optimum RPM. It isn't perfect as efficiency is also influnced by head flow and other factors, but it will get you in the ballpark. The carb would be most efficient 1,000 RPM below and above the calculated figure. I'll attache the file and let you decide what you want.



The stock tensioner from the period is a joke (and the modern one from Guzzi not much better). Keep checking the oil pan for rubber bits. When you find them, replace the chain and tensioner. The after market one from Harper's or MG cycle is far superior.

 

[Supaflee]

40mm Del 'Ortos would be too large. They would only work well at very high RPM on that bike. The 30s work well, but some may say the 36s would be better. It depends on the RPM range you want to ride in. I have a spreadsheet where you can plug in the bore, stroke and carb diameter to calculate the optimum RPM. It isn't perfect as efficiency is also influnced by head flow and other factors, but it will get you in the ballpark. The carb would be most efficient 1,000 RPM below and above the calculated figure. I'll attache the file and let you decide what you want.



The stock tensioner from the period is a joke (and the modern one from Guzzi not much better). Keep checking the oil pan for rubber bits. When you find them, replace the chain and tensioner. The after market one from Harper's or MG cycle is far superior.

Hi John , Ive tried to open the spreadsheet but dont seem to be able to do it .Any clues , or help ??
Supaflee

 

[john zibell]

Hi John , Ive tried to open the spreadsheet but dont seem to be able to do it .Any clues , or help ??
Supaflee

The spreadsheet is in a zipped file. You will need to unzip the file. The spreadsheet is in an older Excel format. Excel, Quattro Pro, or Open Office will be able to handle the file once extracted.

 

[ARVENO]

The SP1000 is a good starting point - it has the nicasils and the heads actually flow a bit better than the (slightly) larger valved lemans heads. Most of my mods are made to make the bike more reliable/sweeter to ride.

For the motor I would:
- Fit 36mm Dellortos - there is nothing wrong with Mikunis etc but there is nothing really wrong with Dellortos either and there is a lot of knowledge on how to tune them. Fit the lightest springs available.The oval K&Ns are the ones to use.
- Lighten the flywheel. I think todd still does machining. Go with the wide spline hubs if it isn't in the bike. This will transform the bike - some like a heavy flywheel - I don't.
- Set the squish to about 40 thou - See George Dockery's recent post on how to do it.
- If money allows put a hotter cam in. Do check the lifters as they tend to pit. Megacycle are really the only choice these days- they use new steel blanks. ALWAYS put in new or resurfaced lifters when replacing the cam. Todd sells them so give him a call on which one to pick.
- Think about bumping up the compression ratio - pistons might be a problem though. If so twin plugging is useful if you set up the bike properly. This can get expensive.
- Sort out the breather system by removing the PCV valves, lightly stuffing the breather box with stainless steel wool and fitting a PCV valve AFTER the box.
- Sump extension and Pete Roper's windage plate are also good ideas.
- Fit the alternator cover spacer if not already fitted - this reduces the heat of the rotor and cost like nothing.
- A new high torque starter is almost required if you up the compression. THis also lets you run a smaller battery.
- Straight pipes without the front crossover and Lafrancone's are a good bet.
- An electronic ignition is nice as the points are a pain and can't be set accurately - the dyna is ok and relatively cheap and reliable if fitted with the correct coils - which should be replaced at this point anyway. While you are at it fit solid wire cables with NGK plugs.
- Set the thing up properly. Most people neglect this! Time the engine properly and record where you are. Get a good selection of jets and read the Dellorto tuning guide.

I would not:
- Fit timing gears - not worth the cash and potential problems as they sometimes disintegrate and do not offer an measurable performance gains.
- lighten valve gear, fit needle bearings etc. Polish this or that. Again there is little power here and the motor as it comes from the factory is fine.
- Other expensive go faster mods - its an engine designed for police plunkers anyhow. As Pete Roper says love it for what it is not for what it isn't.

Suspension
The original front end is a bit of a flexi-flyer
- Buy good tires before you start playing. Get the pressures right.
- Lower/raise the forks in the triple tree until you find what is happy
- Fit a fork brace (Tarozzi still do one?)
- FIt FAC dampers
- Some people fit Wurth or Progressive springs - haven't so can't comment.
- If you want to go whole hog fit a front end off a rice rocket. I think Todd has some info on the forum on how to do it. These tend to have 4-6 pot brakes so there will be a dramatic improvement in that area. I personally like the linked brakes.
- Fit new rear shock absorbers because the original are toast - the only thing is to find ones you can afford! The prices of shocks is crazy these days IMO.

Redo all wiring and fit an electronic regulator - they again are cheap. Guzzi has about twice the wire as needed and strange ideas about grounds. THe bosch system is simple, easy to sort and reliable if a little underpowered especially at low revs.

Thank you guys, i love this thread , i got a 1000 SP myself and i've found answers to some of my questions....

Marco..

 

[Chris R]

The transition to Nigusil was '81 - both my '79 SP and '80 G5 still had iron liners. Absolutely nothing wrong with them either and I wouldn't swap them out for Gilardonis unless they were damaged or worn.

I stand corrected. Don't get me wrong - if I had an engine with iron bores I would ride it until it needed new bores and then replace them. Though these days with Gilardoni's output being sporadic to non-existent I would buy them as soon as I saw any in stock and install them when they are needed. In my experience they out last the iron bores at least two to one as well as having a lot better leak down. They are also remarkably less noisy.

40mm Del 'Ortos would be too large. They would only work well at very high RPM on that bike. The 30s work well, but some may say the 36s would be better. It depends on the RPM range you want to ride in

What John says is spot on - it really is swings and roundabouts. With the 40s it gets hard to tune the lower openings. The 40s with the emissions bump around the main jet are a bit more tunable at the low end.

There is nothing more hellish then to drive a bike that is tuned only to WOT in heavy traffic so prudence is the way to go here.

36 seems a sweet spot between tunability from throttle closed to 1/4 turn and Wide Open Throttle performance. If I had 30's on my bike I would probably live with them unless some 36's showed up cheap.

Also what John said about the tensioner.

Where can I find some aftermarket cams for the bike? I have not had much luck finding too many places online that sell aftermarket engine parts for these bikes.

As I said before, megacycle is really the only reliable off-the-shelf cam out there. Again Todd (the owner of this site) is a distributor so send him an email. If you go the regrind route - which I don't advise - there is no doubt someone at Crane who could help you - I think they used to grind the cams for Dr. John so they have some experience. Fitting a cam is a bit of bother - It would be my last mod.

I like the lafranconi's. The front crossover pipe doesn't seem to do much except fry the alternator and be a pain.