Which External Oil filter kit ?

[Sanders63]

MG Cycles has a Sump Spacer external oil filter for my 96 cal 1100, oil filter goes to the front of the engine & I have to grind some finning off for it to fit.
MG Cycles also has a deepsump oil pan with external filter, I think it also goes to the front, not sure. Over twice as much money as their Sump spacer & nearly twice as much as harpers.
Harpers Outsider oil fiter sump space.
Which is the best to get :?:
Thanks in advance

 

[OldJock]

All of these are quality parts, avoid the "bub" type which used hoses internally, not a very smart move.

It depends what you are trying to achieve, how you ride the bike, number of miles you do and type of riding/roads you travel. It also depends on how much you love the bike and how willing you are to spend

First is a spacer type will always be cheaper it stands to reason.

The Harpers puts the filter are the rear which IMHO is a better place for it as it doesn't get crap thrown at it by the front wheel. That said I have the deep V sump sold by MG Cycle with the filter at the front and it's never been a problem.

The MG Cycle spacer has the filter at the front but it has a windage tray incorporated into the design. This helps keep the oil in the sump separate from the windage created by the crank, which gives the oil an easier time. It also really comes into its own if you do a lot of aggressive riding. It keeps the oil pump pickup from possible starvation under high lean angles and hard acceleration and deceleration.

Then we get to the V sump MG cycle pretty much tells it all, increased breathing, oil kept away from the crank, increased cooling and the V does a similar job to the windage tray by placing the pickup at the bottom of the Vee.

That sump is also available with a site glass but I don't know if MG sell it with that config. Its a Moto Spezial product, originally and manufactured now by Guzziladen, in Germany when Motospezial was wound up.

If your a balls out and push the bike type then the V sump is probably worth considering, but if you are more the cruiser guy I'd probably just go for the spacer. That said the sump also junks the spacer, which is nice too, no more fiddling with 2 gaskets and 2 pieces whenever you need to drop/install the sump.

Probably a lot will come on and say none of them because its not a huge deal to drop the pan and it makes you clean all the sump properly and they have a very valid point as well, it horses for courses

John

 

[john zibell]

I'm not a fan of the external kits. I like to check the bottom of the pan occasionally, and during a filter change is a good time. If you insist on an external filter, Check Harper's site. Their design uses quality lines and locates the filter behind the pan.

 

[Sanders63]

The type of riding is two up semi agressive, back roads, add 20mph to marked corner speeds when loaded. We like twisties & good lean angles. More than 20,000 miles a year. Changing the 96 Cal into my Tour Sport. More tourer than sport, but not a cruiser any more. Six gallon tank, 7:33 rear end from Charley, Hannigan fairing, more narrow bars & so forth.

 

[OldJock]

Last post on this for me, its a very subjective thing. If you want more opinions than you can shake a stick at, go to Wild Goose and do a search on "outsider".

Unless the idea of an internal filter is such a PIA that its going to stop you changing the filter then the internal setup works fine. Practically it will make little difference to the longevity of the engine if you follow Guzzi's instructions. A windage sheet is probably better money spent.

Dropping the pan is not a huge deal, allows you to clean the bottom of the sump and also the mesh filter in there too. Its only necessary every 4k miles or so. Another point is if the gaskets are oiled they can be reused many times.

My experience with the V sump is that even though I have an external filter I usually end up dropping the pan anyway just for the above reason. The only time I think it would be an advantage for me is if I was on a trip and needed to change oil and filter with limited facilities. I do like when I drop the sump though that I only have a one piece assembly and not the spacer to deal with to.

All of these options are pretty expensive, as an alternate and if you really want an "outsider" (as they are known in Guzzi speek) then I'd guess at the Harper's and contact Pete Roper about a windage sheet. That way you have the best of both worlds. Pete (like JZ and a many others on here) are real legends and know there onions, they will give you the best advice on what and what not to use even if it means them losing a sale.

John

 

[Sanders63]

The way I ride and the distances my wife and I do, puts me at changing oil and filter every other month to every month. The two trips we take a year, would need a oil change during the trips.
It baffles me on dropping the pan. I had 147,000 miles on R100 BMW & I've got 107,000 on the K1200LT that I just sold to build this Guzzi. The pans were never removed on either Bike. The Honda PC 800 that we took to the Grand Canyon from AR. then from there to Maine, & back to AR., No pan removal, heck I don't even know if it had a pan.
I just drained the oil and change the filer every 3,000 miles.
What is different about the big Guzzi that it needs the pan dropped? You can change the filter & oil on my 84 650c Guzzi without dropping the pan.

 

[john zibell]

The way I ride and the distances my wife and I do, puts me at changing oil and filter every other month to every month. The two trips we take a year, would need a oil change during the trips.
It baffles me on dropping the pan. I had 147,000 miles on R100 BMW & I've got 107,000 on the K1200LT that I just sold to build this Guzzi. The pans were never removed on either Bike. The Honda PC 800 that we took to the Grand Canyon from AR. then from there to Maine, & back to AR., No pan removal, heck I don't even know if it had a pan.
I just drained the oil and change the filer every 3,000 miles.
What is different about the big Guzzi that it needs the pan dropped? You can change the filter & oil on my 84 650c Guzzi without dropping the pan.

It is the design of the block. The original V twins (1967-1974 or V700 to 850T) didn't have an oil filter, just a manifold setup for the pump to obtain oil from the pan and distribute it to the engine galleys. The oil filter was an add on beginning with the 850T-3 (1975). The easiest way to add the filter was to redesign the pan to include the necessary galleries and to provide for the filter. With the filter in the pan, it was safe and secure from any road damage. Also with the cheap cam chain tensioner used until recently, you would look for rubber bits in the pan to tell you when the cam chain tensioner had failed and it was time to replace the tensioner and chain.

 

[Sanders63]

John,
Does the 96 model suffer from the cam chain tensionner malady?
What are the other signs of a needed tensioner or cam chain on the Guzzi ?

 

[john zibell]

John,
Does the 96 model suffer from the cam chain tensionner malady?
What are the other signs of a needed tensioner or cam chain on the Guzzi ?

It isn't great in the 96, due to insufficient tension, but it doesn't come apart like the early rubbing block type used previously. I'm not sure of the exact change over date though. If you need to go into the timing chest, I do recommend the ones sold by MG cycle and Harper's. With the later factory tensioners, the chain can stretch quite a bit so you will notice decreased performance. With the old rubbing block, you could see the rubber bits, then hear the chain tap the timing chest if it got too bad. I've not seen one of the newer bikes get so bad the chain hits the block. I usually get folks to update their timing chain situation before it can get that bad.

 

[Sanders63]

Ok John,
Here is the Question, since I am building this to do high miles, how much of a Pain is it to change out the timing chain and Tensioner. I have changed the Chain on an airhead BMW,. What are the tricks or absolute must do on the Guzzi when changing the Cam chain ?

 

[john zibell]

Ok John,
Here is the Question, since I am building this to do high miles, how much of a Pain is it to change out the timing chain and Tensioner. I have changed the Chain on an airhead BMW,. What are the tricks or absolute must do on the Guzzi when changing the Cam chain ?

It is very similar to the BMW. However, the 96 uses a permanent magnet Alternator. This means you have a very long crankshaft nose. To get the nut, I cut the end of one deep impact socket, and welded it to another to have enough reach. With an impact wrench it is an easy job. That is about the only different. When placing the new chain in, it helps to have a second person hold the tensioner back (it is pretty stout if you get the MG cycle or Harper's unit)so you have enough slack to line up the three sprockets as these have to go on together like on the BMW. Also sometimes the parts manual lists the correct crank seal, sometimes not, for that reason I contact Harper's to get the correct seal when I do one. In addition, one exhaust pipe and the front bolt that goes through the cover must be removed.

Also for easier access, I support the front of the engine on a stand or blocks and remove the front wheel and fender to have more room to work. That isn't absolutely necessary, but is sure make working in the timing chest easier. If you have more detailed questions, PM me and I'll shoot you my phone number.