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Why the Stelvio?

Discussion in 'Stelvio Chat & Tech' started by Poppe, Nov 6, 2017.

  1. vhntr1

    vhntr1 Just got it firing!

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    New member here I glad I just picked up a new stelvio yesterday!
     
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  2. GTM®

    GTM® Administrator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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    Poppe likes this.
  3. Poppe

    Poppe Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    Just saw this video review of the Stelvio when I watching V7 videos. It makes me desperately want a Stelvio and it confirms everything everyone has said in this thread.

     
  4. boscoman

    boscoman Tuned and Synch'ed GT Contributor

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    Was a very good review of the Stelvio.
     
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  5. MotoG5

    MotoG5 Tuned and Synch'ed

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    Be it a Stelvio, Norge or Griso and you are one of the Guzzi persuasion you need to own for at least for awhile an 8V powered bike. This engine is the summit for the air cooled Guzzi v-twin power plant. It is simply the most visceral soul grabbing motor Guzzi has produced. I am in love with the 2012 NTX I bought new. The roller tappet issue was just a bump in the road. I did it myself with the kit supplied by my dealer. As all of the Guzzis I have owned over the past fifty years of riding these bikes it was no big deal to work on. I chose the Stelvio for its comfortable riding position, load carrying capacity and large gas tank. I have ridden the Norge and Griso 8V bikes and they are its equal but just different in how they go about it. If you have a yen for the Stelvio just do it. You will not be disappointed. Its really all about that motor, and alas there will be no more made. Jump while you can.
     
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  6. GuzziMoto

    GuzziMoto GT Reference GT Contributor

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    While I wanted to like the new 8 valve motor, in the end, I am glad I don't own one. I do own two different older 4 valve per cylinder Guzzi's, and both of them are awesome, with the Daytona motor being the coolest Guzzi motor yet put into a street bike. And while that motor isn't mechanically perfect it doesn't destroy itself like the flat tappet 8 valve motors apparently do.
    I like the 8 valve motors, but I also like other Guzzi motors, each one has its charm.
     
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  7. Poppe

    Poppe Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    Comments like these make me really torn between the v85 (when it comes) and the Stelvio. I think the v85 would still make more sense for me but man oh man does the stelvio sound like a dream.
     
  8. boscoman

    boscoman Tuned and Synch'ed GT Contributor

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    If you are looking for long distances & can appreciate an 8.5 gallon fuel tank with enough power for a passenger, than the Stelvio is the way to go. The Stelvio is also quite capable of taking you off road should you so desire.
     
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  9. Poppe

    Poppe Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    I always say I want a long distance bike, but my life rarely allows for much more than a weekend at this point. By my current area where I live there are a lot of fun back roads to romp on though.
     
  10. MotoG5

    MotoG5 Tuned and Synch'ed

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    I understand your point of view. But the 8V flat tappet motor does not destroy its self IF it is converted to the roller system. All 8V flat tappet bikes were produced prior to 2012 when Guzzi changed over to the roller tappet system. Conversion kits are still available for bikes that were not upgraded as this has proven to be the real fix. If one wants to avoid any issue there are plenty of 2013 to 2017 bikes out there for sale. An earlier flat tappet bike that has been converted can be as reliable as any of the post conversion units, I know, I have one. It is too bad indeed that Guzzi/Piaggio handled this so poorly. It gave what is a perfectly solid and reliable engine design a bad name it does not deserve. The 8V roller tappet engine is a rock solid performer that will give as good a showing as any that the brand has produced. Now that they are no longer in production if one wishes to get a taste of what these bikes are like just check that its been converted or factory built with rollers and give it a go. Like I said before, you won't regret it.
     
  11. GuzziMoto

    GuzziMoto GT Reference GT Contributor

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    First off, I was around before the roller conversion came out, so I may have a different point of view then you. Not trying to be mean, just pointing out that while the roller motors don't yet have a reputation for destroying themselves the flat tappet 8 valve motors sure do. And making a flat tappet motor destroy itself is a pretty good feat, as one of the main advantages of a flat tappet motor is that it doesn't normally fail. Yet Guzzi screwed the pooch and made a flat tappet motor that appears to always fail.
    Roller motors aren't the time bomb that the flat tappet 8 valve motor is, but they do have the potential for catastrophic failure as well. If / when the needle bearings in the roller tappet come apart the engine tends to suffer catastrophic failure. If you run it long enough, it will fail.
    On top of that, the 8 valve motor is fairly inefficient, likely making less power per liter of fuel burned then the 2 valve motor it replaced. The combustion chamber shape and valve timing don't seem to be that well perfected. The older 4 valve Daytona motor seems to be more efficient than the 8 valve motor.
    But, if an 8 valve roller motor floats your boat, that is great. I haven't yet seen a Guzzi motor I don't like. But looking at it from a design perspective, I don't think the 8 valve motor is the best Guzzi motor they have made.
     
  12. MotoG5

    MotoG5 Tuned and Synch'ed

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    OK, fair enough. The longevity of the roller 8V is yet to be seen. And you certainly have your reasons for not owning one and have stated why very well. I have been riding Guzzi now for just a bit short of fifty years and I am sure that you would agree that the roller tappet fiasco isn't the first time they have screwed the pooch. You have not been in any way mean, only truthful about your feelings on the bike under discussion. Time will tell on this and now that the engine has been added to the long list of interesting designs Guzzi has built and abandoned its just another fun campfire debate. I will soon be downsizing due to age and health reasons but have really enjoyed the Stelvio these last six years. So now its on to the new smaller bikes that are coming out for me. However the 8V has been one of my favorites out of the many Guzzis I have owned.
     
  13. Trout

    Trout GT Reference

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    I have to agree with this!
    For the longest time I thought my old Mille GT was the cream of the crop.
    Then along came the Black Eagle 1100 which was replaced with the 1400 Custom.

    That 1200 8v & the 1400 are two of the sweetest engines I have ever ridden.
     
  14. GuzziMoto

    GuzziMoto GT Reference GT Contributor

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    I can agree with that.
    I own a Daytona, it has it's own motor issues but it is also an amazing motor. I also own a Lario, another Guzzi motor with issues. It is also a pretty cool motor. Luckily neither motor has issues as bad as the flat tappet 8 valve motors. But the Lario isn't too far from it. I would not mind having a roller 8 valve motor. If I had an 8 valve flat tappet motor that had not yet blown up I would consider different valve springs as the stock springs appear to have been spec'd to be too stiff. That may be why they fail. But I could be completely wrong. I base that partly on the knowledge that they are using the same springs with the roller tappets and normally you need a stiffer spring for roller tappets. But I don't really know for sure.
     
  15. MotoG5

    MotoG5 Tuned and Synch'ed

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    All I know for sure on the valve springs is that with the A and B kits the original springs are left in place. The C kit however requires removing the heads and shimming the valve springs as part of the upgrade. I would venture a guess that in the older pre NTX motor the C kit is required in Guzzi felt that the existing springs needed to be modified. But this is just an assumption on my part.
    The Daytona is a real milestone for Guzzi, I remember all of the excitement when it came out with all of new innovations in both engine and drive train. You are fortunate to own one. The Lario is a very cool little bike and in my opinion one of the most attractive of the small blocks imported to the US. My wife rode a V50 III for several years before moving up to a Cal III. I would say the Lario is a real keeper too. Its going to be interesting to see where the small blocks now arriving fair.
     
  16. GuzziMoto

    GuzziMoto GT Reference GT Contributor

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    As to the valve springs, I have heard / know the same as you. I also know that shimming a valve spring increases the seat pressure but does not change the overall spring rate. It simply move the entire scale the amount of the shim. That is a very small difference, shimming a valve spring is something you would do to "tune" the spring rate to get that last bit of performance out of the valve train. Think of it like adjusting the preload of the rear shock spring. Adjusting the rear shock preload can fine tune the rear suspension to get maximum performance out of it. But if the spring rate is wrong to begin with it will never be right because preload does not change the spring rate.
    A roller tappet vs a flat tappet typically requires different springs. And how is it that many of the motors don't even require the spring shim? That is really crazy, and could explain why they failed. A flat tappet motor with springs that are too stiff will fail.
    As to the Daytona and the Lario, I hope to keep both of them until I die. I would not sell either unless under serious duress.
    Guzzi as a company does have some issues, but they have also made some very interesting advancements for such a tiny company. As I recall they were the first to use a cartridge fork. And while I don't think they handled the 8 valve failures very well they are not any worse than most other manufacturers about that. Suzuki, of note, is much worse historically.
     
  17. Poppe

    Poppe Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    Well that was a really fascinating read on all the 2v and 4v stuff. Can't say I understood most of it but I'll be looking into all of that just for fun reading with tappets and such.
     
  18. Stevie

    Stevie Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    My absolutely favorite bike of all time.

    DSC00066.JPEG
     
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  19. GuzziMoto

    GuzziMoto GT Reference GT Contributor

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    That is a seriously nice color in that light.
     
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  20. Poppe

    Poppe Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    Seems the photo is down, but I think I saw a preview of it from my email notification. And wow was it beautiful. I'm usually not one for the burnt orange bikes, but that photo was stunning.
     

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