Won't start again

[kwn306]

Well my Italian bit*h will not start again :x

The last time this happen it was after sitting in traffic for over two hours in 90+ deg heat and the bike would not start after sitting for an hour while the wife and I had dinner. I final did get the bike to start by holding the throttle wide open but it would not run at an idle, once warm it would idle but very ruff.

This morning it was 29 deg., bike hasn't run in two weeks, just been plugged into a battery tender. Hit the starter button and the bike turns over but will not fire. I did that four times, finally the wife said to hold the throttle open like I did back in the summer and see what happens. The bike tried to start, after trying another three times with the throttle wide open it started but was only running on one cylinder, with a bad smell of fuel. At this point I have lost what little religion I have with this bike and my Swedish temper is in over drive with this POS.

So I pushed out the old Jap bike from the corner of the garage with 146K on the clock, turned the fuel lever to prime and it fired up and the wife and I went to work.

Any of you Guzzi guru's have any ideas? This bike doesn't like heat, doesn't like the cold, doesn't like short trips, fewer than 5 miles, seems that the plugs load up like it is running too rich. According to my dealer everything is set right, the last time back in the summer my dealer replaced the 0xgyen sensor (computer said it was bad). Many on this forum said it wasn't the problem, which I believe now. HELP !!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[john zibell]

Kurt,

The O2 sensor may have been bad, but that doesn't impact starting. It sounds like the bike is pushing too much fuel. Try a set of fresh plugs. If these foul you are pushing too much fuel Are the injectors working properly? It is cheaper to have them reconditioned/cleaned than replacing them. Try these guys http://www.rceng.com/. If you can't find fault other any other system, you may be looking at a defective ECU. Defective ECUs are rare, but they do occur.

 

[kwn306]

Update........

Towed the Italian b*tch to the dealer in the snow last Saturday, boy that was fun :unsure:

Service tech called me a few minutes ago and said the plug and boot for the left cylinder were firing on the valve cover. They installed a new plug and wiring assembly from the coil and the bike fouled the plug within 3 minutes. Again the new plug wire assembly had a hole burned in it and it was firing on the valve cover.

The tech called MG technical and the techie said to check the ohm resistance of the coils and voltage to the coils. Well the voltage to the coils was 13.5 volts but the resistance across the coils was only 8 ohms on the left and 20 ohms on the right.

A new left hand coil has been ordered, hopefully the carrier pigeon will have it to the dealership by Friday so I can tow it home in the snow again

I am hating this weather patern we are having in Virginia these last two months. October we had 8.5" of rain, November we had 9.8" of rain and December is starting off with more rain, sleet, freezing rain and snow :evil: that makes for lousy motorcycle riding.

 

[john zibell]

Kurt,

Glad the culprit has been identified. I hope the weather improves for you.

 

[RJVB]

Aren't coils supposed to fail all together, for a reason I forget??

 

[kwn306]

Kurt,

Glad the culprit has been identified. I hope the weather improves for you.

John,

Send some warm weather up to the northeast , we riders would appreciate it

 

[kwn306]

Aren't coils supposed to fail all together, for a reason I forget??

Sooner or later it would have died all together, but has the coil breaks down internally it will do some crazy stuff. Mine happened to fine a weak point on the high tension lead and start sparking there rather than have enough grunt to make it to the spark plug. Remember electricity will take the least path of resistance.

What troubles me is that my bike will be on its forth left hand high tension lead. That tells me there is a problem with the materials if they break down that fast. Probably due to heat / sitting in rush hour traffic around Washington DC.

Any of you long time Guzzists have any suggestions short of copper, that would really f@ck up everyones radio around me in cages :whistle:

 

[kwn306]

Aren't coils supposed to fail all together, for a reason I forget??

Sooner or later it would have died all together, but has the coil breaks down internally it will do some crazy stuff. Mine happened to find a weak point on the high tension lead and start sparking there rather than have enough grunt to make it to the spark plug. Remember electricity will take the least path of resistance.

What troubles me is that my bike will be on its forth left hand high tension lead. That tells me there is a problem with the materials if they break down that fast. Probably due to heat / sitting in rush hour traffic around Washington DC.

Any of you long time Guzzists have any suggestions short of copper, that would really f@ck up everyones radio around me in cages :whistle:

 

[draidt]

Aren't coils supposed to fail all together, for a reason I forget??

Sooner or later it would have died all together, but has the coil breaks down internally it will do some crazy stuff. Mine happened to fine a weak point on the high tension lead and start sparking there rather than have enough grunt to make it to the spark plug. Remember electricity will take the least path of resistance.

What troubles me is that my bike will be on its forth left hand high tension lead. That tells me there is a problem with the materials if they break down that fast. Probably due to heat / sitting in rush hour traffic around Washington DC.

Any of you long time Guzzists have any suggestions short of copper, that would really f@ck up everyones radio around me in cages :whistle:

I would disagree with that assessment and put the blame on all the failures with the coil, That IMHO was breaking down all along.

 

[WayneOrwig]

What troubles me is that my bike will be on its forth left hand high tension lead. That tells me there is a problem with the materials if they break down that fast. Probably due to heat / sitting in rush hour traffic around Washington DC.

One possibility is that the left coil is shorted a number of turns on the primary. That is bumping up the primary current and giving you way to high of an output when the field collapses.

Another is that the left spark plug is bad and takes too much voltage to fire. Thus the spark looks elsewhere to escape. Though I believe it has been changed, you didn't really say.

 

[kwn306]

What troubles me is that my bike will be on its forth left hand high tension lead. That tells me there is a problem with the materials if they break down that fast. Probably due to heat / sitting in rush hour traffic around Washington DC.

One possibility is that the left coil is shorted a number of turns on the primary. That is bumping up the primary current and giving you way to high of an output when the field collapses.

Another is that the left spark plug is bad and takes too much voltage to fire. Thus the spark looks elsewhere to escape. Though I believe it has been changed, you didn't really say.

Been changed four times at the cost of $20 each time.

 

[Penis Rotor]

Apart from being an Italian bitch any other info on what model of machine we're talking about?

Pete

 

[WayneOrwig]

Apart from being an Italian bitch any other info on what model of machine we're talking about?

Pete

Stelvio of course.....

 

[Penis Rotor]

Whoops! Sorry. I tend to just have the 'New Posts' page open and sometimes forget the post has it's origin at the top of the page !

Was this machine eligible for the cam recall work? if so it should of had the newer, easier to remove, plug caps fitted. If the spark is jumping to earth prior to the plug the caps are the usual suspects as they are so easily damaged. The fact that there are resistor caps and resistor plugs also encourages the spark to find an easier way home.

The different resistances of the coils would seem to indicate something else is awry as well though. what are the diagnostics saying? Anything??

Pete

 

[kwn306]

The different resistances of the coils would seem to indicate something else is awry as well though. what are the diagnostics saying? Anything?? Pete

Pete,

Glad you chimed in.

I know the little red triangle with the "!" inside was flashing when I would rev the bike over 4 - 5 grand. This is when it was running like crap. To be honest I forgot to ask my dealer what he found with the Axone. I will call tomorrow and post the findings.

My dealer is realitively new, since the Spring of 07, he tries hard, but sometimes he can get lost. The techie folks in NY told him to replace the coil and high tension lead. I assume he discussed the codes / findings with them.

 

[Billd]

I had a very similar problem with my bike. I had damaged the left plug lead pulling it off. The bike would run on both cylinders sometimes and only on the right cylinder at others. Because the bike is closed loop with an O2 sensor the problem was exasperated making the bike run worse than even just running on one cylinder. My fix was to tape up the plug boot just before the 90 degree turn. I discovered the leakage area by removing the plastic cover and running the bike in the dark. Suggest you do the same and tape up the damaged area of the boot and try it again. If this works run it for a bit. Suspect this area of the boot is weak dielectricly . Had this same problem with a 916 Ducati.

 

[kwn306]

Update......

Picked the bike up Saturday morning, it was a bone chilling 14 deg F when I left the house, so I took the cage and the trailer.

Got to the dealer and started the bike up and rode it for a 2 minutes and then up on the trailer. Brought it home and started again and rode it into the garage and plugged it into the battery tender.

Was going to ride it to work this morning but it rained all day Sunday and they were calling for low 20's last night so I figured the black ice would be out.

So far the bike appears to be running well, with the old coil the bike would have fouled the plugs by this time with all the short little start ups and shut downs.

Tomorrow morning its supposed to be 40 deg so I will ride it to work, I will update everyone after tomorrows trip.

Also, there were no codes in the ECU that pertained to the miss firing, the only code was it did not read the key code correctly, whatever that means.

 

[WayneOrwig]

Tomorrow morning its supposed to be 40 deg so I will ride it to work, I will update everyone after tomorrows trip..

Wow! A real heat wave..... :?


Hopefully that was it. Pretty odd one. I haven't heard of too many coil failures on Guzzi's since the days of points.

 

[kwn306]

:lol: :laugh: :cheer: :lol: :silly: :side:

She is running better now than it did when it was new.........me thinks the coil has been the issue all a long.

Great mileage as well, 41.8 mpg, 2 up (loaded) @ 75 - 80 mph (just keeping up with rush hour traffic in DC), OAT was 40 F in the morning and 50 F on the way home.