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Yet another problem

Gregg Nordby

Tuned and Synch'ed
Joined
Aug 22, 2016
Messages
39
Location
Minnesota
IMG_1064.JPG

Now this showed up and the bike will start for about 15 seconds then slowly die. It feels like it's running on one cylinder . Any ideas? Spark plug leads maybe? For whatever reason the computer in dash or ecu is not throwing any codes which tells me this might be mechanical . I was under the impression both service lights meant major issues............... starting to like my 13,000$ investment less and less.
 

canuck1969

GT Reference
GT Contributor
Joined
May 31, 2012
Messages
1,243
Location
Burlington, Ontario
Could be the plug leads. Known problem.

When u say it does not throw a code what do u mean by that. You have to go into the diagnostic screen of the menu and see what code is active. Either an ecu error or dash error.

The service indicator and light is how it tells you you have an error. It will always show both when an error is present.

Read the codes and report back. If you have not already changed the spark plug caps may be a good idea to do that. If they are arcing you will see a white spot or a hole on the cap. You can cover it with electrical tape for now.
 

Lannis

Cruisin' Guzzisti
Joined
Aug 10, 2010
Messages
173
Location
Spout Spring, VA
View attachment 10990

Now this showed up and the bike will start for about 15 seconds then slowly die. It feels like it's running on one cylinder . Any ideas? Spark plug leads maybe? For whatever reason the computer in dash or ecu is not throwing any codes which tells me this might be mechanical . I was under the impression both service lights meant major issues............... starting to like my 13,000$ investment less and less.

Those lights don't NECESSARILY mean major issues, at least they don't on my 2009 and someone can correct me if this one different. For example, my service lights come on when the speedometer sensor on the CARC gets wet.

The failure mode you describe was how I knew that my spark plug wires had failed (actually happened at the New Hampshire MGNOC National rally). Luckily (well, intentionally) I was carrying the proper replacement boots and we replaced them and fixed it .....

Lannis
 

Rafael

GT Reference
Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
1,099
Location
San Leandro, CA
The ECU should keep the bike idling if one cylinder spark lead is arching... Remove the plastic covers and see if you can see arcing.

yup, check for error codes. The service indicator can be cleared. My service indicator does not match the 6k mile service interval.
 

john zibell

Moderator
Staff member
GT di Razza Pura
Joined
Oct 28, 2008
Messages
8,513
Location
Huntsville, AL
The ECU should keep the bike idling if one cylinder spark lead is arching... Remove the plastic covers and see if you can see arcing.

yup, check for error codes. The service indicator can be cleared. My service indicator does not match the 6k mile service interval.


He isn't getting the wrench icon that indicates the standard service.
 

Gregg Nordby

Tuned and Synch'ed
Joined
Aug 22, 2016
Messages
39
Location
Minnesota


Here is a video of the problem . For some reason the codes went away . I checked the dashboard and the EC you and neither one shows a history of throwing a code.
 

canuck1969

GT Reference
GT Contributor
Joined
May 31, 2012
Messages
1,243
Location
Burlington, Ontario
Check the plug leads and caps but that sounds more like fuel starvation especially since you are not getting codes anymore. Hard to say. What happens if you give it gas once you start it.
 

canuck1969

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GT Contributor
Joined
May 31, 2012
Messages
1,243
Location
Burlington, Ontario
And does it rev ok if you hold the throttle, or does it still sound like it is on one cylinder. For the codes, you may have to try and read them while the bike is running with the error present. Otherwise, you will need to get some software to read the codes in memory. The dash will not display ECU errors in memory, only dash errors in memory and active ECU errors.

Could be many things, plug, plug wire/cap, coil, injectors. Something is amiss and without codes it will not be easy to find.
 

Gregg Nordby

Tuned and Synch'ed
Joined
Aug 22, 2016
Messages
39
Location
Minnesota
Update definitely running on one cylinder cause the left one is bone cold after running for about a minute while the right exhaust is hot. Pulled the injectors and left cylinder refuses to shoot fuel.
IMG_1067.JPG
Now the question is why? O and look at the spark plugs

IMG_1066.JPG

The left is the left cyl. And the right is the right cyl.

Shoved a bore scope in the cylinders and left is pretty normal while right has lots of carbon like the plug.

Any thoughts?
 

canuck1969

GT Reference
GT Contributor
Joined
May 31, 2012
Messages
1,243
Location
Burlington, Ontario
Switch the injectors around and see if it follows the injector. If so, your injector is damaged. If not, then you need to look further back to see why you are not getting fuel there or a signal to trigger the injector.

There is only one relay for the two injectors and the fuse is used for other things including the other injector so you can rule those out. Check both ends of the injector wires to make sure they are full connected and free from corrosion. Also, those fuel lines kink easily. You can pull the injector from the hose and make sure it is getting fuel but just be careful as it will come out fast. You can pressurize the line just by turning the key on.

Would be nice if you could get the codes. Did you try getting them with the bike running and the service lights on?

Have you done any recent work on the bike???
 

Gregg Nordby

Tuned and Synch'ed
Joined
Aug 22, 2016
Messages
39
Location
Minnesota
Yes I did and no codes showed up. Honestly my biggest concern at the moment it's that o e cylinder is normal and the other is super full of carbon . Any idea why that would be
 

john zibell

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GT di Razza Pura
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Oct 28, 2008
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8,513
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Huntsville, AL
Looks like your "normal" cylinder is the one that isn't firing, perhaps from no fuel. The other is the one is firing running and may be over fueling. Get the injectors sorted and you should be good to go. Be sure to get both cleaned and tested. Only replace if testing fails.
 

canuck1969

GT Reference
GT Contributor
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May 31, 2012
Messages
1,243
Location
Burlington, Ontario
I don't understand how it can throw the service light on and not have an associated code. As long as the service light and word are on the code should be active. Not sure I have ever heard of the happening.

Did u scroll through all the screens with code. The ecu one has something like 3 screens and u need to toggle through them.

Also how did u activate the injectors to see if they are working. Do u have software to activate them or did u pull them and try to start up the bike.

Just want to make sure you have covered all the diagnostics properly.
 

Gregg Nordby

Tuned and Synch'ed
Joined
Aug 22, 2016
Messages
39
Location
Minnesota
I'm with you . I can not understand why the codes have not saved . Yes I did check all the pages . I activated the injectors by pulling them and quickly starting the bike. I don't have the software......yet. I did recently take a trip that went through Iowa . In most of that state the only fuel they ha e is ethanol. I wonder if it plugged the injector
 

canuck1969

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Joined
May 31, 2012
Messages
1,243
Location
Burlington, Ontario
Ethanol does not work that fast. I run ethanol has a lot of the time and no issues.

The one that is black is either over fueling by the injector being stuck open or the coil is not firing all the time and causing a rich mixture and your poor running. If you pull the injector and just turn the key does fuel come out of the injector. Did u also try switching the injectors around and see if the problem follows the injector. It may also be a coil issue.

Did you make sure that the lead end that plugs into the coil is secure. These have a habit of working itself loose. I have mine zip tied in place so it does not come off. Worth a look. Sometimes you have to crimp the end a little tighter so it fits tighter.
 

john zibell

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GT di Razza Pura
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Oct 28, 2008
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8,513
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Huntsville, AL
When you test the injectors, point them at a good size piece of cardboard. You should see and evenly spaced spray pattern. Similar to a shotgun pattern with 12 shot. If you don't, you have a problem injector.
 

Gregg Nordby

Tuned and Synch'ed
Joined
Aug 22, 2016
Messages
39
Location
Minnesota
Update:

As a control I switched the injectors to opposite sides to see if a injector was bad. After doing so I found the new left injector still was not shooting fuel . Unfortunately I believe this leads me to the harness and or fuses ........... ugh
IMG_1072.JPG
IMG_1073.JPG
IMG_1074.JPG
IMG_1075.JPG

Looking at the manual it talks about a auxiliary fuse/relay box however I can not find it for the life of me to check for fuses to the injectors.

I find it hard to beleive the harness itself had a a short but I suppose it's possible.

All I know is I'm stumped and really missing my carbeurated motors right now. I am not good with electrical .
 
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