Autotune options

[John in PA]

I've been reading the manual for the Autotune. Other than tinkering with the air/fuel ration in different cells, what other significant operator controlled changes should be looked at? What is the optimum time delay for Autotune changes to be added to the PC-V mapping (I believe option runs from zero to 300 seconds, with default being 60 sec) I was thinking that with an aircooled engine, you might get some spurious corrections if you allow the Autotune to start changing things too early (though I doubt the engine reaches operating temp even in 5 minutes, unless it's been run and shut off recently.

How long should I ride before "accepting" changes to the PC-V map? I realize that this will be an incremental proces for the first several rides. If I understand correctly, the Autotune will eventually stop (or nearly so) making changes and at that point may become redundant so long as no changes are made to exhaust or air intake(filter, airbox, etc)(??)

Finally, the map in my PC-V is identified as Breva 1100. This is on a Stelvio. I realize the map is only a starting point, but is that really OK? I've finished the install and reassembly and am eager to test the system, but don't want any BIG surprises. :roll:

 

[GTM®]

Hi John, good questions. The AutoTune 60-second default seems to work well. It will start correcting the fueling, regardless if the motor is warm or not, which is great(!), as it needs it even cold.
If you are trying to build a map, I'd take a nice long ride trying to hit every throttle position and RPM. Tough task, and it's most helpful if you have some long climbing hills, running in a higher gear (to allow slow rpm changes) so that the the AutoTune can properly sample the fueling. A quick burst won't do it. Have a short run of it, and see what changes it makes.
I honestly wouldn't stress over building a map, as AutoTune is so accurate, that minute-to-minute, hour-to-hour, day-to-day fueling changes are constantly happening. Watch and you will see... there is *no* perfect map. I can't see a time ever to disable or remove it. As for the map, I have no maps yet for the Breva, so I'm not sure how that happened. Are there any actual numbers showing? I'll send you a map direct e-mail as a baseline, though it really doesn't matter, you can start building your own map starting with all zeros. Awaiting your replies.

 

[John in PA]

There are numbers in the map showing fuel corrections as much as 40-60% in some cells. Marked as Breva 1100, stock airbox, stock exhaust. If you've got a Stelvio starter map in the can, I'd take one. FWIW, my setup is Mistral slip-on, and K&N filter in stock airbox/snorkel.

 

[GTM®]

To answer your original question John, the AT is a set it and forget it deal. Aside from the delay to correction, I really wouldn't mess with the others. If you want to open the correction up to 40% min/max from the 20%, that's up to you... be sure to reset it to 20% when done. The max the software will allow you to enter and still work is 50%. If you enter more then 50, AT will not make any corrections.

Three maps for the Stelvio attached, zip file. Two built in-house with the GT-Sx slip-on with and w/o air box lid, and one with a Mistral muffler built by AJ. Send yours to me when you get a good running map, and be sure to note your mods in the Notes section of the map.

 

[John in PA]

I did a half hour or so first run, wide range of throttle settings and loads. Autotune and sensor are active and functioning. I accepted the first set of trims. The only problem I'm having is with idle. Idle is very rough (to stalling), seems to surge, or one cylinder is cutting out, I can't tell for sure. Hot engine or cold, no difference. With even a slight crack-open on the throttle, all is good. Only at idle, whether from engine start, or when rolling off throttle when coming to a stop. Either it stalls or wants to stall, needing the throttle to be babied manually to prevent shutdown. Runs like a raped ape everywhere else.(No idle difficulties prior to conversion other than very mild surging)

Thanks for the maps, also. I've made this run with the map as received. If you think it's a PC-V base map issue, I'll load one of them. FWIW, Autotune made no corrections at zero or 2% throttle.

 

[GTM®]

AutoTune won't make any adjustments at idle, as it's not set to. Be sure you zero out any fueling revisions in the PC-V map in the 0% column at idle, then try setting the AutoTune to adjust at idle (set at 13.2 @1000 & 1250 RPM), run for a few minutes, then accept the trim, revise the AutoTune table to zero and go again.

 

[Ray R]

A good discussion, for sure. Let me add my question, as it's somewhat relevant. I don't have all the break-in miles done on my Stelvio yet, so I'm keeping the RPM below 5k and the throttle under @ 75%. Should I wait to accept any AT mapping adjustments until I can use the full throttle/rpm range?

My idle speed also seems a little high (@1300-1350). I've got the stepper motor and throttle bodies all plugged. Is there any way to adjust it without messing with the "sacred screws"? I've already checked/set the TPS on the ECU and PCV.

 

[GTM®]

I don't have all the break-in miles done on my Stelvio yet, so I'm keeping the RPM below 5k and the throttle under @ 75%. Should I wait to accept any AT mapping adjustments until I can use the full throttle/rpm range?

Accept away, as often as you feel like it. AutoTune will continue to refine regardless of how many times you do it... it seems especially responsive to temperature variations.

My idle speed also seems a little high (@1300-1350). I've got the stepper motor and throttle bodies all plugged. Is there any way to adjust it without messing with the "sacred screws"? I've already checked/set the TPS on the ECU and PCV.

There is (of sorts)... where is the AFR at idle? Per post above, zero out 0% at 1000~1500 RPMs on the PC-V table, and revise the AFR table under AutoTune in the same tables, and let it fix fueling at idle if it's not close to 13.2. Post your results.

 

[John in PA]

Three maps for the Stelvio attached, zip file. Two built in-house with the GT-Sx slip-on with and w/o air box lid, and one with a Mistral muffler built by AJ. Send yours to me when you get a good running map, and be sure to note your mods in the Notes section of the map.

Todd, a few more questions:

Are these Stelvio maps built on the modded ECU's or the stockers, or is that immaterial? (I know it will be eventually after the Autotune takes over, but just for starters)

Also, does the ECU mod change anything about the way the stepper motor functions?

And, finally, if the PC-V should fail, will the modded ECU map still allow the bike to run reasonably well with the PC-V disconnected (limp-home mode or whatever)?

 

[GTM®]

Are these Stelvio maps built on the modded ECU's or the stockers, or is that immaterial? (I know it will be eventually after the Autotune takes over, but just for starters)

If the map has values in every column, then it is from a modded ECU. It will be in the notes if not, and there ill be no data below 40%.

Also, does the ECU mod change anything about the way the stepper motor functions?

It does not.

And, finally, if the PC-V should fail, will the modded ECU map still allow the bike to run reasonably well with the PC-V disconnected (limp-home mode or whatever)?

If there is ever a time that any one feels as though the PC-V is a problem, simply unplug the injector wires, and plug the OEM connectors back in (only). At that point, the bike will be back to OEM stock. The modded ECU will run the bike fine (normally).

 

[John in PA]

Thanks a million. Still working on the idle. Just figured out that the Autotune doesn't save any changes to the table till you hit "Send table" Probably why nothing changed first time around. DOH!!!

 

[Zapa]

AutoTune won't make any adjustments at idle, as it's not set to. Be sure you zero out any fueling revisions in the PC-V map in the 0% column at idle

Are you talking about trim modifications? The first map I tried to build was going rougher and rougher at low revs, and trims in that area were often +20. Should I discard those?

 

[GTM®]

Thanks a million. Still working on the idle. Just figured out that the Autotune doesn't save any changes to the table till you hit "Send table" Probably why nothing changed first time around. DOH!!!

AutoTune Trim table is an active overlay, until you hit "Accept Trims" from the top pull-down. It then auto-sends the corrections to the PC-V map, and zeros out the Trim table. I recommend "Get map" from there, and save a copy to your computer from there.

Are you talking about trim modifications? The first map I tried to build was going rougher and rougher at low revs, and trims in that area were often +20. Should I discard those?

I'm only talking about '0' at idle; 1000~1250 rpms. You can zero them out, and set AutoTune to 13.2 at these areas, but always leave the PC-V map set to '0', even if/after you "Accept Trims" - make sense?

 

[NeroGuzzi]

So when you adjust your AFR, is that information also transmitted when you select Autotune | Accept Trims?

When I have selected the "Get Map" button, my fuel table changes radically from the existing numbers in the table. What am I looking at?

 

[John in PA]

When you make changes in the AFR table, those changes are not saved for use till you hit "Send Table" while the AFR screen is showing. Otherwise it doesn't use the changes you input, and if you leave that screen and then reopen it, you'll see the original stuff still displayed. After I discovered how to save that info, the Autotune/PC-V started using my adjustments.

First trip out (yesterday) the autotune added fuel, 20% in a couple of the lower cells, and the idle issue is about gone. I saved those trims(Accept) and will run it again (and Accept again) till it stops tweaking. As I said, the idle issue has essentially vanished.
Otherwise I'm still working on a map. It's hard to do all the cells, RPM and Throttle Percentages, without geting BUSTED!!!

 

[NeroGuzzi]

Thanks, John.

 

[GTM®]

Otherwise I'm still working on a map. It's hard to do all the cells, RPM and Throttle Percentages, without geting BUSTED!!!

Well the fun part with the AutoTune is you don't *have* to... just ride and enjoy it.

 

[Ray R]

I set the PCV map to "0" at 0-throttle and 1000 and 1250 RPM. I set the AutoTune to 13.2 in these same two cells. The Stelvio seems to be idling better now....closer to 1200-1250. Thanks for the suggestion, Todd!

This tuning process seems almost too easy. Ride, accept. Ride, accept. AutoTune is going to make the DynoJet obsolete! It's making some pretty significant alterations to the PCV base map. I now can't imagine using a PowerCommander without one.

 

[GTM®]

It's making some pretty significant alterations to the PCV base map. I now can't imagine using a PowerCommander without one.

A point I won't be able to drive home enough. Congrats/thanks/enjoy!

 

[Ray R]

I set the PCV map to "0" at 0-throttle and 1000 and 1250 RPM. I set the AutoTune to 13.2 in these same two cells. The Stelvio seems to be idling better now....closer to 1200-1250. Thanks for the suggestion, Todd!

I went back to the previous (original) map and A/F settings for idle. It seemed to be "hunting"....and a bit rough. I'd prefer a bit too fast idle rather than stalling.