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Hel(p) Brake Line Length

Spokes

Spokes

Tuned and Synch'ed
Joined
Aug 27, 2012
Messages
45
Location
Stoke on Trent, Straffordshire
Done a dry fit, no washers, of my new HEL Brake Lines For Moto Guzzi Breva (2003-2008) - Full Length Race Layout. Mines a 2005. I followed the same path as the OEM just with the double from the MC.

u3w5W.jpg


Right and left as viewed above.

The left line is only 2cm longer than the right and this (the right line) seems 1cm shorter than the OEM straight down to RH caliper.

hRbla.jpg


The route behind the headlight looks right to me but once down by the caliper

1HZn9.jpg


things get tight and twisted!

Phoned Hel support twice but no answer yet so waiting on an email.

Should have gone for an OEM set with 2" on the MC side as most other members. At least I could compare with the original.

The idea is to fit HeliBars but there's no chance with the length of these lines or should I persevere and make them fit?

Just as a note. 2003 was the 750 Breva with single disc. So not sure what Hel is measuring as a standard length!
 
With the OE configuration, "T" style. The right side governs, so I don't see how it could work with a shorter than stock length. IIRC, I added 1.6 " to the MC leg.
 
Thanks for the input Rafael.

The Hel lines are back in their package ready for return. I had read your post "Re: Breva questions while I have parts strewn all over the shop" earlier regarding HeliBars and fittings. I don't think the HEL banjos are adjustable for twist.

Turn-to-fit Galfer banjos image link:
http://www.galferusa.com/wp-content/upl ... it-web.jpg

The left one doesn't really line up right with the caliper and when the forks are at full extent, won't even reach.

I'll wait on HEL support to see what they'll do as these won't fit. I do like the Red lines. So haven't been totally put off but will probably go for them in OEM "T" style, as you, with extra length on the MC side of the line. I'll order by phone though, to be safe. Don't think Galfer stocks in the UK.

Even though I'll stick with a 50mm increase in length, was 1.6" (45mm) enough for you to fit the HeliBars?

cheers Stu
 
The race style dual line set up does not follow the same path as the stock "T" set up.
Perhaps if you route the left side more directly they would work.
 
Spokes said:
Even though I'll stick with a 50mm increase in length, was 1.6" (45mm) enough for you to fit the HeliBars?
Click to expand...
Yup.

An extra 5mm won't hurt, fit depends on how all the other cables are arranged.

GuzziMoto said:
The race style dual line set up does not follow the same path as the stock "T" set up.
Click to expand...
Wouldn't the right side race style have same path as the top of the "T" in the OE set up? Stu's right line is 10mm shorter than stock instead of the 40-50 extra needed. Besides, I wouldn't abandon the hose clamp on the bottom triple clamp, gives Giovanni Ravelli something to do. :)

Both Galfer and Spiegler lines have adjustable banjo fittings. I got the Galfer lines because a local retailer offered them but I used the tool from Spiegler to make the adjustments. I think the Galfer lines were a little less costly as well.
 
Thanks again for the replys and help :)

Still no feedback either by phone or email from HEL which is a bit of a let down.

The routing of the left line needs to be clamped as it's supplied with a gromet. When putting the headlamp back there's little room directly behind the housing to allow the line a straighter route to the clamp. The LH leg of the OE is 8cm longer than the RH. Even allowing for the lack of join in the HEL full length race set, 2cm extra seems not enough.

This is my invoice to HEL:

q1B3F.jpg


The 2003-2008 maybe a misprint on their side as the 2003 Breva's are single discs 750's.

Anyway, that aside the invoice does state 50mm longer. So I've taken some Polaroids :D

IZ6V2.jpg


OK, the lines aren't 100% straight but do show a comparison.

While measuring I did my best to straighten the lines. Measurements were taken from where the banjo pipe met a lip or join which looked to me as pretty equal amongst the lines. The pencil lines are to show the join/lip measurement index and not the measurement actual.

KpWux.jpg


The measurements of the OE line ignored the join crimps and were measured to centers (approx) for each segment (leg).

IJMih.jpg


Approx Lengths (hopefully of future hep :) ):

OE Line: 77cm (RH) / 37cm MC leg / 40cm RH caliper leg / 48cm LH caliper leg

HEL A: 76cm

HEL B: 78cm

I've got new copper crush washers so the OE line will go back on tomorrow :)

[edits]

NOTE: Just noticed in the picture and was evident in the dry fit that the caliper banjos orientate the same way with the HEL lines which made it awkward to fit without turing the banjo and I wasn't sure HEL lines allowed this. The OE line shows the banjos normal orientation.

NOTE: HEL Banjos can be turned. Confirmed with HEL Performance.

NOTE: HEL Performance have offered a Return/Replace on behalf of Brake-Lines.co.uk, pleased with that :)

image host changed (imgur.com)
 
I feel your pain. A long while back, I replaced the dead WP forks on my Sport 1100i with a set of used Öhlins from a MG V11 Cafe. That necessitated using some calipers from a V11 Sport instead of the ones from the Sport 1100i because the mounting hole distances were different. The newer calipers should be better anyway. Then the brake lines didn't fit so I scarfed a used set from somewhere else to see if anything else would go right. Nope. The master cylinder was mismatched to the changed calipers. Ordered new brake lines from Spiegler. Eventually saved up some bucks and ordered a radial front brake master cylinder (Thanks Todd!) and today - I started to put it all together. Not a good experience. The Spiegler lines were too short, I had measured wrong. The master cylinder setup is so different from the original that virtually everything is an interference fit. To accommodate the much too short brake lines, I moved the "T" block for the lines up to a home made bracket attached to the bottom side of the steering damper mount on the front fork and then finagled the original master cylinder to "T" block line into place as it is now way too long where the brake lines are still just a tad short but may work. At the same time, I discovered that the "V11 Café CF" fender I got off of FleaBay (custom built to order) actually fits extremely poorly so I'll have to make adaptors and cut CF and drill holes etc. It may all work, or I may wind up starting all over with another set of brake lines and perhaps even another fender. I'll bleed the lines within the next few days and try out the brakes. If they at least seem alright, I'll continue to re-assemble the motorcycle. If not, it's one step backward for every two forward. Somehow, that all seems perfectly normal.
 
Thanks for those words Carl, it's all part of the fun and like whats been said in this forum else where, it may help others in bypassing our mistakes.

I've now fitted the HeliBars to my Breva 2005. They don't have the same machining as those at the start of the Heli-Bars for Moto Guzzi Norge... https://www.guzzitech.com/forum/188/2207.html (I'll add photos soon) but they're the same style.

Those brake lines I got at 86cm and 93cm were perhaps a tad too long for the right side but not a problem. If you check the photos of lines you'll notice that the banjos angles are different. The original angles from the radius where as the HEL angles from the face. When I put the photos up you see what I mean.

The cables/lines are shared with the Norge but the cable/line routes aren't. The Norge cables/lines pass directly over the top triple where as the Breva has a plastic switch plate in the way and pass over the corner of the light bracket. This means there's more to strech. The lines and cables just need adjusting to get the best path.

The main problem with the HeliBars is they touch the tank at full lock. Luckily I have a Bagster tank cover to save this from doing any damage. The corner could be sanded down with some wet&dry but that's another day.

I've done a couple of hundred miles with the HeliBars and I'm please with the ride position. I don't ache after a long run. Mission accomplished :)
 
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