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How much better are the new V7C's?
- Thread starterbigwaves
- Start date
sign216
High Miler
The improvements are genuine, much better than the thin model changes you see on some brands. The twin oxygen sensors, one for each cylinder, with the new sensor digital board will really tune the engine performance to a fine point. Each cylinder's air-fuel mix will be adjusted on the fly, to suit it's own individual parameters.
That being said, it's not changing the bike into something new and different. Merely sharpening the existing bike into a better machine.
Joe
That being said, it's not changing the bike into something new and different. Merely sharpening the existing bike into a better machine.
Joe
pokeyjoe
High Miler
Where did they put the O2 sensors? I can't see anything in the pipes in any of the pics.
The bigger tank would be nice, although it detracts from the lines of the bike. Looks like the Racer's get chrome tanks again, too. I can't imagine what that would be like. My black tank needs constant attention. I seem to splatter gas all over it every time I fill up.
The bigger tank would be nice, although it detracts from the lines of the bike. Looks like the Racer's get chrome tanks again, too. I can't imagine what that would be like. My black tank needs constant attention. I seem to splatter gas all over it every time I fill up.
From what I read on wildguzzi before it went poof was that the new tank is wider. That shouldn't spoil the lines any.
If you can't see the O2 sensors, that would be a small + for esthetics. As long as they work, no one's going to care.
Considering all of the threads on throttle body settings and synching for previous Guzzi models, this single throttle body setup is going to be a godsend. No futzing around with the bloody thing.
If you can't see the O2 sensors, that would be a small + for esthetics. As long as they work, no one's going to care.
Considering all of the threads on throttle body settings and synching for previous Guzzi models, this single throttle body setup is going to be a godsend. No futzing around with the bloody thing.
Mi_ka
High Miler
I really - really want to read an engine feel comparison of the new single throttle body V7 vs the NC700 engine setup.
Not a bike comparison but an engine one between the refined air cooled oldie vs the new V2 simulation.
They are both supposedly targeting the same customers (albeit aboard two very different bikes) with easy vibes in the menu.
Not a bike comparison but an engine one between the refined air cooled oldie vs the new V2 simulation.
They are both supposedly targeting the same customers (albeit aboard two very different bikes) with easy vibes in the menu.
Beaufort
Tuned and Synch'ed
Oh, time to subscribe to this thread!GT-Rx said:
Except you'll probably give it its own thread.
Oh well, I'll keep my eyes pealed.
LaGrasta
Cruisin' Guzzisti
Just read the review in Cycle World, arrive in yesterday's mail. Wow, they are genuinely impressed. Granted they love everything Honda does, but with that said, they state it's revolutionary and will trend a new direction in motorcycling.
Also in this issue is a short interview for Piaggio. They too speak of this trend direction.
Also in this issue is a short interview for Piaggio. They too speak of this trend direction.
Mi_ka
High Miler
Please do! I am very interested in how the engines compare - it has been a long time since a mainstream "normal" bike was not designed with big figures at high rpm mentality.GT-Rx said:
Mi_ka
High Miler
Yeap, I have been looking into this in the UK NC forum as this bike could get within my reach in place of my dream Griso which seems much unlikely to ever become reality. The Honda guys have taken half the light and mpg efficient Honda Jazz 1.3 car engine, twisted the crankshaft to 270-degrees to put there some vibe and improve torque characteristics so it is a V90 emulation like the TDM. I tried to look into why it does not rev and the connecting rods seem a bit flimsy to support high rpm and the whole breathing design is around low rpm efficiency so it seems high rpm would not give out anything else than higher consumption. On the other hand, guys in that forum say you can go WOT from 2K in 6th with no ill effects and have snap on injection behavior from this low so you end up with similar rpm range to a Guzzi (I have a thread there of how the NC compares to a Guzzi). A guy who rode the former V7 found it rather gutless in comparison but he may just not revved it in its sweet range.
The NC also has a single throttle body and even more, a single injector (!) and has an exhaust manifold that is more like a thumpers with the exhausts merging in the cylinder head.
The camshaft is tuned to compensate for the breathing pulses of the 270-degree crankshaft by slightly different timing.
I think that this may be the reason for the different length(?) of the single throttle body ducts length on the new V7.
So it is a very dissimilar design but it may behave very similarly overall except for the high rpm singing the Guzzi should have and the much better down low behavior the NC should posses.
If it is no problem, I would really like your comparative opinion on sound, vibes and maybe mpg under normal but not constrained use.
However, the bikes have very dissimilar looks and this alone would make the differentiation for the buyers even if their engine behave similarly.
The NC also has a single throttle body and even more, a single injector (!) and has an exhaust manifold that is more like a thumpers with the exhausts merging in the cylinder head.
The camshaft is tuned to compensate for the breathing pulses of the 270-degree crankshaft by slightly different timing.
I think that this may be the reason for the different length(?) of the single throttle body ducts length on the new V7.
So it is a very dissimilar design but it may behave very similarly overall except for the high rpm singing the Guzzi should have and the much better down low behavior the NC should posses.
If it is no problem, I would really like your comparative opinion on sound, vibes and maybe mpg under normal but not constrained use.
However, the bikes have very dissimilar looks and this alone would make the differentiation for the buyers even if their engine behave similarly.
Mi_ka, I got some time in on the NC700 yesterday (pic below).Mi_ka said:
Power wise, it's rated @56 hp, so it certainly feels more substantial then the V7. It's a very odd feeling motor, but in no bad way... It's smaller bore, long stroke motor slowly builds from just off idle as the revs climb, with no real "power curve"; it's pretty flat, all while remaining very vibe-free. You can certainly feel the car-like motor characteristics, as you get no real engine braking when you let off the throttle.
Exhaust note is actually surprising, with a nice deep twin-cylinder tone... though it is very quiet.
Center of gravity is of course very low, and it's light on it's wheels. Pretty much what you'd expect of this platform.
They claim 65 mpg, which is pretty nice for commuting or distance riding (thought the fuel tank is smallish - hopefully someone will come up with a drop in secondary cell where the helmet locker lives in the normal tank position, with the main tank under the seat for those not familiar with this model yet). Brakes are also just adequate (single only rotor up front with no easy upgrade option, only the stock rubber brake line), and no option of adding a second disk & caliper. If you want a commuter with little personality, it would be the perfect bike. It's a 'Honda Civic on two wheels.' When you step off of it after a ride, you'll likely say "not bad, it's pretty nice" -- it's a price-point bike with a very focused target market. They've nearly sold out before they arrived here in SoCal.
Fit and finish is typical Honda... but I did learn from my Honda employed friend, that only the first batch of NC700's will be built in Japan, afterwards in Taiwan I think he said. So if you want one, buy the first year model. I can't comment on the MPG's as it only as 100 miles on it so far, so I'll keep in touch with him on it once it has some miles on it.
How would it compare to a V7? It doesn't. Completely different bike, for a completely different owner/mindset IMO. The V7 is a modern retro ride that is best for entry or smaller riders (not that those are the only ones that will own them of course)... but if anyone reading this expects for the V7 to motor like any of the big block Guzzi (despite the often compared HP of the original V7 Sport), you will be disappointed. If you buy it knowing that it started life as a 350cc motor, you will be accepting of it and actually enjoy it most likely.
I'm a little sad to see the NT700 get replaced by the NC, as I'm a fan of the old NT650 (Hawk/Bros). The NT could likely be more compared to the V7, but only in the pre-Touring version days.
Summary: NC apples, V7 oranges.
That help?
Attachments
Mi_ka
High Miler
A lot!
Among many many thanx!
I have been looking for the opinion of an educated Guzzista and this is the first one I get as I know I *really* liked the Breva 1100 I rode once and would opt for the sportier setup of the Griso 1100 but all I can look at is the NC, if I am very lucky (I have also ridden the V7's 350 ancestor and besides 20 years of distance I still remember it well).
So, besides the V2 sound there is no other similarity besides that the NC is in its own way a good bike.
Now how much better is the new V7 in comparison to the old one??? :side:
Among many many thanx!
I have been looking for the opinion of an educated Guzzista and this is the first one I get as I know I *really* liked the Breva 1100 I rode once and would opt for the sportier setup of the Griso 1100 but all I can look at is the NC, if I am very lucky (I have also ridden the V7's 350 ancestor and besides 20 years of distance I still remember it well).
So, besides the V2 sound there is no other similarity besides that the NC is in its own way a good bike.
Now how much better is the new V7 in comparison to the old one??? :side:
pokeyjoe
High Miler
Mi_ka said:
Not much difference in power, but the fueling system is much better. The throttle is much more responsive. Given the choice, I'd take a new one. Rest of the bike is the same.
Mi_ka said:
It sounds like you really want the NC700 so you might as well get one. I already got a 2013 V7 so between the two of us, we'll maintain the balance of motorcycledom. :laugh:
Mi_ka
High Miler
I really want a Griso 1100 but since I am broke even the NC now looks very distant.
The NC got me when I heard the videos of its sound (only profession I have properly studied has been the "Recording Engineer"). While the TDM maybe a V2 90 emulation it sounds nowhere near a Guzzi while the NC sounds pretty close.
However, I am aware that the NC competes in the V7 segment, nowhere near the big blocks.
The NC got me when I heard the videos of its sound (only profession I have properly studied has been the "Recording Engineer"). While the TDM maybe a V2 90 emulation it sounds nowhere near a Guzzi while the NC sounds pretty close.
However, I am aware that the NC competes in the V7 segment, nowhere near the big blocks.
Penderic
Tuned and Synch'ed
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2011
- Messages
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Your story sounds similar to mine. I first heard a utube vid of new Mistrals on a V7 Classic and it just blew me away.
I had to search for more info on the bike, as I never heard a Guzzi V twin running before.
I knew very little about Moto Guzzies to start with, but thats part of the fun... learning new stuff, stories, opinions and trying to imagine having one!
I love that moment you say to yourself.... Thats my next bike! and mean it.
I ordered mine and paid for it without even a test ride - although I made the salesman start up the one in the display window first!
My bike did had a few little gremlins and it took me a bit of time and effort to iron them out and make some changes to 'mark' my territory, to make it more MY classic. ( but then again I think every new bike I got had something weird go wrong. )
Had my Classic for over 3 years now, very happy with the ride and very happy just looking at her standing still!
I like the looks of the new model but I hope to be enjoying my 2009 Classic still, even when the newer 2017 V7 model arrives! :lol:
I had to search for more info on the bike, as I never heard a Guzzi V twin running before.
I knew very little about Moto Guzzies to start with, but thats part of the fun... learning new stuff, stories, opinions and trying to imagine having one!
I love that moment you say to yourself.... Thats my next bike! and mean it.
I ordered mine and paid for it without even a test ride - although I made the salesman start up the one in the display window first!
My bike did had a few little gremlins and it took me a bit of time and effort to iron them out and make some changes to 'mark' my territory, to make it more MY classic. ( but then again I think every new bike I got had something weird go wrong. )
Had my Classic for over 3 years now, very happy with the ride and very happy just looking at her standing still!
I like the looks of the new model but I hope to be enjoying my 2009 Classic still, even when the newer 2017 V7 model arrives! :lol:
There is a grade on Hwy 87 ascending to Mt. Ord from the southbound direction that ascends 1190 feet in 5.3 miles. On my 2010 V7 Café I would start at the bottom at 75mph, throttle WFO and at the top, the bike would be at 64mph when I got to the top. I did this same stretch on my 2013 V7 Racer and had no trouble holding 75mph all of the way to the top without even opening the throttle up all of the way, in fact, I could even accelerate mildly by whacking the throttle open all of the way. That, is a real-world comparison between the earlier V7 engine and the new.
I know that there is a host of naysayers opining the lack of competitive horsepower in the Guzzi small blocks. That's as may be but from my point of view, the re-positioning of the power band on the new bike down to the legal speed area makes the bike a whole lot more useful/enjoyable.
As a side note to the appearance of the Racer. I get 5 times as many people coming up to the bike to say how beautiful it is than I ever got on the green Café and that bike got its fair share of attention as well. The funny thing is that today, I went to a motorcycle open house in Scottsdale and a Harley guy was truly amazed that the chrome tank was stock. I don't think he even noticed the rest of the bike or what kind it was, his entire attention was on the chrome. Truly a case of tunnel vision.
I know that there is a host of naysayers opining the lack of competitive horsepower in the Guzzi small blocks. That's as may be but from my point of view, the re-positioning of the power band on the new bike down to the legal speed area makes the bike a whole lot more useful/enjoyable.
As a side note to the appearance of the Racer. I get 5 times as many people coming up to the bike to say how beautiful it is than I ever got on the green Café and that bike got its fair share of attention as well. The funny thing is that today, I went to a motorcycle open house in Scottsdale and a Harley guy was truly amazed that the chrome tank was stock. I don't think he even noticed the rest of the bike or what kind it was, his entire attention was on the chrome. Truly a case of tunnel vision.