Oil pressure, warning triangle, aladins lamp

[mbtech]

Hey guys. I have a question for anybody that has had this issue. I have an 07 Norge that shows the warning triangle in the warning lamp area and the oil can (Aladdin's lamp) comes on after ridding for a few miles then coming to a stop. I have done an extensive search on this site and also Google to find any possible cures. I have found some as easy as a pressure sensor or more intensive oil pump replacement. Has anyone had to replace their pump? Has anyone added an oil pressure gauge? I was thinking of adding an Auto Meter gauge to the oil sender port, but I need to find an adapter to keep the sender. HELP, Any suggestions. Oh I forgot to mention. I keep the oil and filter changed every 5k and use Motule 10w60 with an original Moto Guzzi filter from dealer. Changed oil last weekend and inspected oil. No shinny particles to speak of.

Thanks, Howard Robinson

 

[john zibell]

Howard,

As you read on this board, it is probably the sending unit. Also possibly the connection to the sending unit or dashboard. The warning activating at a stop is curious. Does it do this every time or just the first time? That symptom warrants a pressure check if the connections and sender are good. I don't believe adding a permanent gauge will gain much except additional sources for an oil leak. I believe you are wasting oil changing as frequently as you do. The factory change interval is more than frequent enough. I worked where there is an oil analysis group and oil lasts much longer than manufactures and oil suppliers let on.

 

[mbtech]

Thanks for the reply. It happens about 15 miles into my ride home. My commute is 52 miles one way. I get on the freeway, come to a traffic signal, 12-15 miles and the dash warning comes on with the oil can icon. Get going again and funnel into a one lane freeway, Highway 37 in Sonoma. and the light/icon come on when traffic slows. If I give it any throttle the light and icon extinguish. I was hopeing it would be a sensor, but I would like to verify oil pressure readings. I was going to buy a good gauge to use as a test, then put on my son's car after using it as a diagnostic tool.

 

[Brian UK]

That does indeed sound like the oil pressure is dropping when the revs drop. Worth getting it checked.

 

[john zibell]

That does indeed sound like the oil pressure is dropping when the revs drop. Worth getting it checked.

Agree, since the symptom repeats on a single run. Load it up and take it to the shop for a pressure test. I wouldn't recommend riding the bike until the fault is corrected. Hopefully you have some warranty left.

 

[Brian UK]

The only other possibility is the unlikely situation of you being sold the wrong oil. Not unheard of for the manufacturer to put the wrong lable on cans. (Ask those at Corsa Italiana in London).
The symptom would appear if the oil was too thin when hot.
But don't chance it, get it checked.

 

[rturo]

Thanks for the reply. It happens about 15 miles into my ride home. My commute is 52 miles one way. I get on the freeway, come to a traffic signal, 12-15 miles and the dash warning comes on with the oil can icon. Get going again and funnel into a one lane freeway, Highway 37 in Sonoma. and the light/icon come on when traffic slows. If I give it any throttle the light and icon extinguish. I was hopeing it would be a sensor, but I would like to verify oil pressure readings. I was going to buy a good gauge to use as a test, then put on my son's car after using it as a diagnostic tool.

howard

It sounds like it needs a pressure test as others recommend, but interested in the conditions - It clears when you give it some throttle - is this once moving or when in neutral? Does it clear for the rest of the ride home and if so what is the difference in the ride/traffic conditions?

I had the icon on once in the height of last years English summer - 30 degrees hmy: , 15 miles at around 80 mph then heavy stop start traffic for almost 30 mins. Mine was for sure oil thinning (therefore pressure drop) - caused by temperature and no airflow through the oil cooler/ headfins. It cleared after checking for leaks and level and spending 30 mins in the Dainese shop browsing.... mainly because the traffic cleared and I got airflow through the fins and cooler.

Its still in the back of my mind though and I've looked at fan options for the back of oil cooler (limited space) or a bigger cooler (not sure that helps as its being slow/stationary that caused my problem).

To keep an eye on it I'm wondering whether it would be possible to feed the temp display on the dash with a reading from a tempo sensor attached to the oil cooler ... anybody know if the display can handle such high temp values and how feasible this is?


Art

 

[Penis Rotor]

It's worth remembering that the oil pressure warning light sender switch only operates at about 2-3PSI. If the oil pressure has dropped that far you're already in trouble.

Generally speaking th commonest fault is he senders which are and always have been crap. But it is worth checking and checking sooner rather than later as very low oil pressure will start causing damage immediately. t may not cause immediate, catastrophic failure but bearing damage will occur.

As for the oil-thinning argument? Sorry, that doesn't wash. I could ride my 1100 Griso and my 8V along with any of my other Guzzis in slow moving traffic on days where the ambient temperature is in the mid forties centigrade and not have a problem with the light coming on. Yes I have an SP with a guage on and in those sorts of temps the pressure will get pretty low at idle but if it got low enough to light the light I'd be going in for a looksee to find out which bearing had lost its clearance!

As others have said, toss the sender and see if the problem ceases but it is really worth checking the pressure accurately with a guage to make sure the OPRV isn't sticking open.

I know that Bill Hagan had an oil pump disintegrate and I think I've heard of one other case of catastrophic failure but I can't honestly see this as a common problem otherwise it would be being shouted from the rooftops.

Pete

 

[3ackok]

My oil sender failure was different- essentially it didn't pass a self check at start up, and red light with ! triangle would come up before the engine was started. I usually could clear the light and ! by cycling the ignition. If this didn't help, I started and stopped the engine. It never returned while I was riding.

 

[Brian UK]

Oil just thinning through heat is why Guzzi specify a 10W60 oil. You could not get a 60 oil to get that thin if the engine were melting.
Now of course, if that 10W60 was actually 10W30 then you might have a different situation.

 

[RJVB]

I know that Bill Hagan had an oil pump disintegrate and I think I've heard of one other case of catastrophic failure but I can't honestly see this as a common problem otherwise it would be being shouted from the rooftops.

This is true, but what's more worrying is that the inner rotor of the oilpump used in the earlier Norge (and Breva) models has been found broken in at least 4 bikes. One was on the test bike that was dissassembled by Moto & Loisirs magazine after the 50k km testing period. They found the bike must have ridden with the pump in that condition for a long time, without ever raising warnings. Vizir's Norge was diagnosed with the same issue last year, after replacement of the oil sender didn't stop the oil warnings. Piaggio being aware of the issue, replacement should be a warranty job.

 

[rturo]

.....I could ride my 1100 Griso and my 8V along with any of my other Guzzis in slow moving traffic on days where the ambient temperature is in the mid forties centigrade and not have a problem with the light coming on.
Pete

Pete

That puts an hole in my theory.. but I'm now surprised that my problem went away. The only thing thats changed since the warning light came on that one occassion is that I added a couple of hundred ml of 10W60 to get nearer to the full mark. Would you recomend changing the sender after I've done a couple of thousand more miles on the clock with no warnings - especially as I recall reading that its not uncommon for the replacements to to display the same failings from new?

Art

 

[mbtech]

Again, Thanks for all the reply's. That is why I love our group! I know the oil is the good stuff, and I'm out of warranty by 6 months. I was just looking to see if anyone has installed a pressure gauge on their bike? I wanted to use it as a diag tool for a while the put it on my son's Mustang after. He has a 66 coupe that we built together. I was looking at fittings and adapter to fit the oil sender port and still retain the original electrical sensor. I know it's buried in there pretty deep and was going to do the install when I change the inner spark plugs. I just hope it's not the pump! and only just a sender. Thanks guys.

 

[Penis Rotor]

Another thing to consider is if the bike has just had an oil and filter change but the new filter wasn't 'Primed' by filling it before installation when the motor is started it takes a couple of seconds for the pump to fill the filter before the galleries and bearings are pressurised. This will almost always trigger a 'Service' warning, (As well as being bad for plain bearings!). Always fill the filter before installation and you won't have that problem. Clearing the errors from the dash/ECU memory will also give a better idea if there IS a problem as if the filter wasn't primed then once it is full and the errors cleared it should NOT recurr.

Pete

 

[draidt]

For a point of information for me, Just where is this Alladin's lamp on the dash ? I have seen the triangle light once while stuck in a traffic crawl for about an hour but never the oil lamp signal. :?:

 

[Gusz]

For a point of information for me, Just where is this Alladin's lamp on the dash ? I have seen the triangle light once while stuck in a traffic crawl for about an hour but never the oil lamp signal. :?:

It appears on the LED screen. Mine happens to come on randomly! During idle speed/clutch in coming to a stop.. but goes off once rev picks up. I just discovered minor leaking on the Oil Temperature Sensor (but the alladin lamp did not come on this time) and is in the process of replacing it.. but have great difficulty doing it due to the confine space to work on the nut (without removing the alternator).. any suggestions to do it in a simple way? also do anyone knows if I can replace this sensor with any other brands? (local Guzzi agent do not have stocks!)

 

[Penis Rotor]

Ummm. The engine temp sensor screws into a plastic fitting in the back of the RH head and is a 'Dry' fitting. It goes nowhere near an oil gallery. When you say it is leaking it may simply be that someone has packed the sensor holder with some form of thermaslly conductive paste, (I use zinc based anti-seize.) to ensure an accurate temperature signal. Is that the sensor you are talkig about??

Pete

 

[kiwi dave]

[but have great difficulty doing it due to the confine space to work on the nut (without removing the alternator).. any suggestions to do it in a simple way? also do anyone knows if I can replace this sensor with any other brands? (local Guzzi agent do not have stocks!)

Can't help you with the alternative brand, but I've changed the sensor a few times now. The easiest way is to remove the LH exhaust pipe and breather pipe to get access with a large (22mm?) ring spanner. Almost impossible to get from the top with a socket because of the alternator. Others have achieved this by removing the airbox I believe, but from experience that's much more work to replace.

 

[3ackok]

Today I had the triangle to show up again. Same error codes... Could the sensor go bad again, after just 6 months?

 

[guzzibob]

the inner rotor of the oilpump used in the earlier Norge (and Breva) models has been found broken in at least 4 bikes.

Define "earlier".