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So what touches down first?

andyb

andyb

Cruisin' Guzzisti
Joined
May 11, 2010
Messages
185
Location
Farnsfield, UK
I have now got my 2015 Mk I Stone handling nicely - and the standard tyres are starting to wear close to the edge of the tread. What touches down first on this bike? I would guess the centre stand on the LHS?

From the wear marks it looks like the front tyre will get to it's edge before the rear tyre - which is not what I expected as that would cause the front wheel to slide out before the rear. Anyone got any thoughts on this? I am running standard Pirelli tyres at standard 36psi pressures

AndyB
 
I went to a 110 wide front tire and have found it gives the bike better balance when cutting deep into the apex, moves around less and holds the line better.

As far as touching something down, I've not touch anything down as of yet and I ride pretty aggressive. I'm fully confident I can lean this bike over and not have concern about touching something down. Can't say that about my Triumph.. on that bike I've had to adjust the center stand and side stands to gain more lean angle. Ijust did a little grinding on both of em.
 
Just had a look - standard size is 100 - so you have upped a size on your front tyre.
Clearance from the mudguard will be tight?
AndyB
 
I used some washers under the mount brackets that lifted my front fender a bit and gave me the standard clearance. That was a concern and under hard braking was getting some tire rub into the inside of the rear section of that fender but the washers spacers cleared that up. I was getting tire traps with the stock size front tire.....no longer get tire traps with the 110 front tire.
 
Tire trap is when you hit a bump with the front tire and hit the bump over to one side and that lateral force tends to turn the front tire a bit sideways which gives you a steering sensation torqueing the front end giving what is called some head shake which can if bad enough send a bike into a total fork stop to fork stop situation. A 110 series front tire are known to be more forgiving. Just a matter of more tire patch wider presentation over an uneven surface thus spreading that lateral force out a bit better. I've always hears of it referred to as a tire trap. I've noticed using 110 front tires almost eliminate tire traps completely for me at least on this bike thus far.
 
Depending on your weight, and with stock suspension, the kick-stand touches down first. I haven't gotten anything down on the brake side yet... though I haven't spent a ton of time on the V7. My video below is my test loop, and my 4/10ths speeds with it.
In general, over-sized tires slow handling; The minimal contact patch increase doesn't outweigh the downside. Head-shake is directly tied to good or bad geometry... made worse by poor suspension. A larger front tire would increase rake and make this worse.

 
When I was racing back in the 70's GP expert class with the Bettencourt race team I ran wider tires out front which helped a great deal with tire traps and head shake. Bad suspension or set up wrong suspension is a whole other subject. Just to keep it simple a 110 wide tire over a 100 tire width will help with preventing tire traps on street bikes. Wider rubber out front will always be more forgiving but turn in slower.

Higher profile (height) will increase rake out front, example 80 to 90 profile....higher profile out back will be more forgiving over all performance wise then a lower rear profile.

On this particular bike my findings are that the 110 wide front tire gives this particular bike better stability in that the front tire is less likely to trap... PERIOD.

you can make any bike go into a tank slapper which can be caused by a whole bunch of different things. Weight of the rider, rider position, suspension, tire pressure,etc etc.

The larger front tire thing with a wider by one size front tire is not going to send you into Armageddon. I would need further explanation on that one.
 
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Hi Todd - The front suspension movement your bike has in that video is amazing. Looks like it really works at absorbing the road shocks.
I have the Euro sidestand which I think is a little more tucked away than the American one.
I noticed that the footrest ends are tapped to take hero blobs like my Norge had - I wonder if it is worth fitting a pair of those to get a feel of where the road is?
AndyB

PS - thanks for the explanation of tyre trap Elkgrichard
 
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andyb said:
Hi Todd - The front suspension movement your bike has in that video is amazing. Looks like it really works at absorbing the road shocks. I have the Euro sidestand which I think is a little more tucked away than the American one.
I noticed that the footrest ends are tapped to take hero blobs like my Norge had - I wonder if it is worth fitting a pair of those to get a feel of where the road is?
Click to expand...
Yes, the Mupo and Matris kits work quite well. The Norge pegs easy swap with the V7 if you find a set used or source them new. Probably not worth it.

I'll take my V7 out tomorrow and see what I get to touch down. ;)

As to tire sizing, oddly enough, my first full season racing a Honda Hawk GT in the early 90's, I actually went down to a 100/70 front tire from the stock 110/80 as they didn't make a race compound in the 110 ratio... I won three regional championships on that 100 with a stock motor. Worked quite well. That's me below at Summit Point Raceway WV and RA.

Hawk-SP-95a.jpg


Hawk-RAt.jpg
 
Me at Daytona in the 70's....Lee Pounders 132 in front of me and Kenny Roberts behind me #2.

The other picture is a Triumph at Laconia speedway on a classics race day a few years back.
 

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Nice, but I'm guessing Roberts was around you after another corner or two. My Daytona pic below in '96. Some fun with me leading the Cycle World dudes for a shoot here, and a test on the Factory Husky 690 Supermoto for MotoEuro Mag.

Buell_DAY.JPG


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Nice pictures.

I'm about ready to go take a putt around the foothills....go grab a burger before the old lady walks thru this door and puts my sorry ass to work.
 
Upping this thread.

My kickstand scrap the ground even at low angles (GPS with angle indication says I touched at 22° !). Is there anything I could do about it ?
 
I've been watching a few videos about lean angle and most of us Humans find it difficult to get past 20°.
How long were in the lean - maybe the GPS didn't register the highest / lowest angle ?

Not really wanting to restart the Tire War - different people drive differently and when it comes to adjusting suspension what works for one might not have a desirable effect for another.

Yes - the Laws of physics govern the effects of what going to a slightly larger tire will DO - but the way you drive might make that something you feel more comfortable with and understand how to manage ...
 
Relatively short lean. I know it's not a sport bike but still. It even feel quite dangerous as if I come too hot in a corner I won't be able to lean more to save my ass.

My question about what could I do about it was not much about the tires but if that kickstand can be moved out of the way with some tricks ;)
 
My side stand on the V7 III is really tucked up against the exhaust,
if I can get someone to tip it to the opposite side I’ll take a picture, but I think something else would touch before that on mine ?
 
V7 III -
Haven't touched down on the kickstand side, but I have wore down my right side foot peg feelers leaning aggressively. My tires have not even seen the edge. If anything, it's confidence inspiring knowing that you don't have to fear going past the limit on a right turn.

On a left turn? I'm too scared to test it, since I don't want to go down catching a hard element. I also use a h&b Centerstand which reduces left clearance even more.
 
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