Thanks Brian... yes Andy, you can unplug them temporarily one at a time and start the bike and see if that fixes the problem.
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V7 reving at start up, no power.....
- Thread starter andyb
- Start date
andyb
Cruisin' Guzzisti
Thanks Todd, I'll have a go at unplugging them as an experiment at some point - I think the connectors are under the LH side cover - but at the moment all is good.
I put 10L of Shell VMax 98 octane fuel in and the new fuel improved things. The only time there is a slight snathyness is when I trundle down our track to the road with a cold engine. Once warm pick up is smooth - but tickeover still 1400rpm.
I will try 95 octane regular fuel again and see what happens as I agree with Brian that standard unleaded should be best. I wonder if the last fuel I had in it was winter stuff?
My bike never ran as bad as frequently as Tiger's V7 Mk II - it only misbehaved badly the once in 1700 miles, and hopefully the new ECU / Throttle body will have sorted that major problem out.
Thanks for your input.
AndyB
I put 10L of Shell VMax 98 octane fuel in and the new fuel improved things. The only time there is a slight snathyness is when I trundle down our track to the road with a cold engine. Once warm pick up is smooth - but tickeover still 1400rpm.
I will try 95 octane regular fuel again and see what happens as I agree with Brian that standard unleaded should be best. I wonder if the last fuel I had in it was winter stuff?
My bike never ran as bad as frequently as Tiger's V7 Mk II - it only misbehaved badly the once in 1700 miles, and hopefully the new ECU / Throttle body will have sorted that major problem out.
Thanks for your input.
AndyB
andyb
Cruisin' Guzzisti
About 100 miles today and all sweet. Went from Super 98 to Regular 95 fuel and did not notice any difference.
So my conclusions are:
1. The major fault (6000rpm at start up) was an ECU fault - rectified by a new ECU.
2. The initial rough running at low rpm with the new ECU was due to either old fuel OR the new ECU needing a few miles to buddy up with the rest of the bike....or did a warm UK day of 23C help things as well?
AndyB
So my conclusions are:
1. The major fault (6000rpm at start up) was an ECU fault - rectified by a new ECU.
2. The initial rough running at low rpm with the new ECU was due to either old fuel OR the new ECU needing a few miles to buddy up with the rest of the bike....or did a warm UK day of 23C help things as well?
AndyB
andyb
Cruisin' Guzzisti
Six weeks later......
The burbling at lower RPM (say below 4000rpm) in fact never quite went away, accompannied by a little popping on deacceleration. It was n't a problem but the motor was just not quite 100%. In UK there are some 50mph roads with speed cameras that average your speed between them and at a steady 50mph the bike was always happier running at 4500rpm rather than below 4000rpm in a higeher gear where it felt flat.
Anyway, today I disconnected the lambda sensors and that made a real difference. No burbling at low RPM, no popping on deaccel and the motor felt sweet at 50mph in a high gear.
Has anyone else tried this mod? Any thoughts?
My understanding is that the lambda sensors only effect the ECU up to about 30% power and after that the ECU runs open circuit.
Bike is standard in the engine department apart from long Minstral silencers.
AndyB
The burbling at lower RPM (say below 4000rpm) in fact never quite went away, accompannied by a little popping on deacceleration. It was n't a problem but the motor was just not quite 100%. In UK there are some 50mph roads with speed cameras that average your speed between them and at a steady 50mph the bike was always happier running at 4500rpm rather than below 4000rpm in a higeher gear where it felt flat.
Anyway, today I disconnected the lambda sensors and that made a real difference. No burbling at low RPM, no popping on deaccel and the motor felt sweet at 50mph in a high gear.
Has anyone else tried this mod? Any thoughts?
My understanding is that the lambda sensors only effect the ECU up to about 30% power and after that the ECU runs open circuit.
Bike is standard in the engine department apart from long Minstral silencers.
AndyB
Unplugging the lambdas takes the input out of the circuit at low speed throttle, yes and it also runs them leaner than stock. I would not run them unplugged even if the bike were bone stock, much less with aftermarket mufflers. It is highly important to flash the ECU once you modify, or even bone stock really.
andyb
Cruisin' Guzzisti
Hi Todd,
I am glad you have not shut down this thread or removed it. I understand that you have a business and if I was in USA I would probably buy an ECU reflash from you as from all accounts that seems to be a good solution to sorting out the V7 fueling issues. However, I am in UK, with maybe different fuel in my bike, in cooler and damper air.
I intend to run my bike on a rolling road and check air/fuel ratios with and without the lambda sensors connected to verify my seat of pants results - and get a few more miles under the wheels to check things out.
My thoughts at present are:
1. The V7 engine is an old design. Nothing wrong with that - but to pass Euro regulations MG fitted the lambda sensors to artificially weaken the mixture at low revs and clean the exhaust.
2. The factory settings are rideable but are not optimum below 4000rpm.
3. Removal of the lambda sensors puts the ECU into open circuit throught the rev range . This is acceptable as engine damage tends to occur at high rpm settings (where the standard system is open circuit anyway). My estimation of where the standard system goes from closed circuit to open circuit is 4000rpm - do you agree with this?
I am pretty sensitive to engines. I feed the throttle in rather than force it. So I am not advocating 'my' solution to anyone else as it may not work on their bike with their riding style. If anyone else has fueling issues look at Todd's solution with ECU remapping as that is well proven now.
AndyB
I am glad you have not shut down this thread or removed it. I understand that you have a business and if I was in USA I would probably buy an ECU reflash from you as from all accounts that seems to be a good solution to sorting out the V7 fueling issues. However, I am in UK, with maybe different fuel in my bike, in cooler and damper air.
I intend to run my bike on a rolling road and check air/fuel ratios with and without the lambda sensors connected to verify my seat of pants results - and get a few more miles under the wheels to check things out.
My thoughts at present are:
1. The V7 engine is an old design. Nothing wrong with that - but to pass Euro regulations MG fitted the lambda sensors to artificially weaken the mixture at low revs and clean the exhaust.
2. The factory settings are rideable but are not optimum below 4000rpm.
3. Removal of the lambda sensors puts the ECU into open circuit throught the rev range . This is acceptable as engine damage tends to occur at high rpm settings (where the standard system is open circuit anyway). My estimation of where the standard system goes from closed circuit to open circuit is 4000rpm - do you agree with this?
I am pretty sensitive to engines. I feed the throttle in rather than force it. So I am not advocating 'my' solution to anyone else as it may not work on their bike with their riding style. If anyone else has fueling issues look at Todd's solution with ECU remapping as that is well proven now.
AndyB
AndyB, You no longer need to send your ECU to Todd. https://www.guzzitech.com/store/product/gt-rx-v7-ecu-re-flash-tool/ The ECU never leaves your bike, he sends you the tool and software to make the change.
andyb
Cruisin' Guzzisti
Hi John.
But I am in UK.......postage / import tax / VAT / time...and after Brexit a bad Xchange rate!
If I was in US it would be a no-brainer
AndyB
But I am in UK.......postage / import tax / VAT / time...and after Brexit a bad Xchange rate!
If I was in US it would be a no-brainer
AndyB
andyb
Cruisin' Guzzisti
Hi John, It is the hidden costs of money exchange £ to $ / postage / import duty / VAT.....afraid even Todd can not get rid of those!
We did 8 x rolling roads tests today - 4 with and 4 without the lambda sensors fitted. Bike is standard apart from Mistral long exhausts with dB killers. Some variation but the runs without the lambda sensors consistently gave a little extra power throughout the rev range with about +1hp at 6500rpm (from 42 to 43hp). It looked like the slightly richer mixture below 4000rpm due to not having lamda sensors also added a little extra fuel at higher revs.
Unfortunetely the A/F sensor would not go into a Mistral silencer (unless I removed the db killers) so we did not get those readings.
This is the first time I have seen a rolling road in use. Runs were made smoothly accelerating the bike to 7000rpm which is a bit different to how a bike is ridden on the street where a lot of the time the engine is at steady speed.
I have now totally removed the lambda sensors and fitted stainless steel plugs in the exhaust, and will run it like that. Hopefully this is my final solution - for my bike - which may not be relevant to other bikes due to fuel / weather / exhaust etc differences.
AndyB
We did 8 x rolling roads tests today - 4 with and 4 without the lambda sensors fitted. Bike is standard apart from Mistral long exhausts with dB killers. Some variation but the runs without the lambda sensors consistently gave a little extra power throughout the rev range with about +1hp at 6500rpm (from 42 to 43hp). It looked like the slightly richer mixture below 4000rpm due to not having lamda sensors also added a little extra fuel at higher revs.
Unfortunetely the A/F sensor would not go into a Mistral silencer (unless I removed the db killers) so we did not get those readings.
This is the first time I have seen a rolling road in use. Runs were made smoothly accelerating the bike to 7000rpm which is a bit different to how a bike is ridden on the street where a lot of the time the engine is at steady speed.
I have now totally removed the lambda sensors and fitted stainless steel plugs in the exhaust, and will run it like that. Hopefully this is my final solution - for my bike - which may not be relevant to other bikes due to fuel / weather / exhaust etc differences.
AndyB